Most of the changes mentioned are things I never even noticed! There are some things I WOULD like to see improved.
1. If the USB charging connector were 2 instead of one USB and one barrel it would be awesome, but I need to be able to use fast USB and charge at the same time. Just removing the barrel connector would make it painful for me. Could we consider dual full USB3 connectors, usable for both charging and data?
2. The sound on mine is pitiful! Better speakers, or speakers better directed, would be a definite improvement. That said I do recommend headphones for any serious work or zoom/meet conferences anyway.
3. I like the weight and balance, and do NOT want it to ever be more breakable. My hinges are fine, but that weak point could be strengthened. I would not object to a change in the balance, as long as we keep the durability. That durability makes me value my $2200USD PPro more than most $1000 proprietary laptops!
4. The touch pad is about worthless on mine. Without touch pad the keyboard is usable, but as long as it works it is just in the way. I always use an outboard track ball or mouse. Other than always using an extra device, I am not sure how to fix that, and I hate to mention it without a suggestion for improvement.
All in all, the 2.0 PPro is a work or art. Not perfect, but a ton of bang for the buck and a real work of art.
Ancient teacher (Secondary Field Science/Math), Warrior (USARNG- RET SSG), and IT warrior (30+ years Coder, Network/Systems Administrator, general house geek).
Pinebook Pro user (Debian, Manjaro)
(09-20-2021, 12:34 PM)wpeckham Wrote: [...]
2. The sound on mine is pitiful! Better speakers, or speakers better directed, would be a definite improvement. That said I do recommend headphones for any serious work or zoom/meet conferences anyway.
[...]
4. The touch pad is about worthless on mine. Without touch pad the keyboard is usable, but as long as it works it is just in the way. I always use an outboard track ball or mouse. Other than always using an extra device, I am not sure how to fix that, and I hate to mention it without a suggestion for improvement.
All in all, the 2.0 PPro is a work or art. Not perfect, but a ton of bang for the buck and a real work of art.
You can test if the speakers are out of phase.
https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=9555
Once confirmed they are out of phase, you can keep the software fix, or rewire one of the speakers and undo the software fix.
Have you seen this thread regarding the touch pad?
https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=14531
(09-20-2021, 10:48 AM)jiyong Wrote: We don't know how long USB-C will stay the dominant connector, but judging from the life span of USB-A, I'm willing to bet at least 10 more years.
Well, the EU is mandating its use on all phones now.
The only problem is chargers that don't supply the correct voltage like the Nintendo Switch charger (shuts off if the device does not switch from 5V to 15V) or devices that won't charge with a low voltage (most laptops).
You know it's a good product when it gets mandated.
(09-25-2021, 01:31 PM)KC9UDX Wrote: You know it's a good product when it gets mandated.
Please stop your (straw man) attack on USB-C.
We've heard your opinion many times now, and you also came up with false accusations.
It was with the barrel connector that companies were able to charge ridiculous amounts for chargers, when they came up with all kind of different varieties of the barrel charger.
With USB-C you still have expensive chargers, but not because it's artificially tied to some brand, but because they support higher wattage, or come with multiple USB ports.
Apple voluntarily agreed in 2018 to work towards a common connector with Samsung, LG, Sony, Lenovo, Google, etc.
Apple will probably lose a lot of money, when they can no longer charge money for third party "made for iPhone" peripherals.
It's no surprise to me that they are dragging their heels.
The EU didn't want to mandate USB-C, they were hoping that the market would agree on a common connector after the 2018 agreement.
But it seems this is the only way to force Apple to do something they already did with the iPad, as the rest of the competitors already settled on USB-C (as agreed in 2018).
Apple is just a hypocrite when they claim this is "stifling innovation", as they didn't come up with a good competitor for USB-C (which is so much more than just charging), as Lightning is outdated when it comes to data transfer speed, charging capacity and connecting peripherals.
You can see that the iPad became a real competitor for laptops, when they switched from Lightning to USB-C (again, USB-C is so much more than just charging).
Guess what, if the iPhone gets USB-C, it can even become a replacement for a lot of computers, just like Samsung Dex.
When you don't want to go through the hassle of replacing the battery (it looks like Apple is also moving towards "validated" batteries, killing third party repair), an old iPhone could get a second life as a mini computer, when they adopt USB-C.
How is that for fighting e-waste?
(09-27-2021, 07:20 AM)jiyong Wrote: Please stop your (straw man) attack on USB-C. I wonder why you saw it as an attack? No, I don't; I'm being facetious, but you already know this else you wouldn't have understood my last comment.
Quote:We've heard your opinion many times now, and you also came up with false accusations.
We've heard your opinion many times now, and now you're falsely accusing me.
Quote:It was with the barrel connector that companies were able to charge ridiculous amounts for chargers, when they came up with all kind of different varieties of the barrel charger.
Non-sequitir. I was going to point this out the last time you posited this, but I didn't want to argue. Different shapes of "barrel connector" were not that many. Cases where companies use odd shapes to captively sell wall warts are rare or none. Producers either buy styles that were cheap and common, or are trying to prevent people from connecting devices of incorrect voltage. Even if they were profiteering, they weren't doing a very good job: Universal adapters for these connectors have been plentiful for 40 years. One could argue that they were using odd voltage for profiteering, but that is a different topic. Pine products all use the same, common size, shape, and voltage, as far as I know.
Quote:Apple voluntarily agreed in 2018 to work towards a common connector with Samsung, LG, Sony, Lenovo, Google, etc.
Apple will probably lose a lot of money, when they can no longer charge money for third party "made for iPhone" peripherals.
It's no surprise to me that they are dragging their heels.
If they were all about doing the right thing, why didn't Apple let Samsung, LG, Sony, etc, use the existing, adequate connector, or at least improve on it in stead of making something completely different, which specifically isn't as good (durability).
Quote:The EU didn't want to mandate USB-C, they were hoping that the market would agree on a common connector after the 2018 agreement.
But it seems this is the only way to force Apple to do something they already did with the iPad, as the rest of the competitors already settled on USB-C (as agreed in 2018).
If USB-C was so vastly superiour, there would be no mandate. EU did not do this reluctantly. EU has some kind of agenda. Perhaps it really is some utopian Earth-saving agenda, I don't know or care. But there is an agenda. The simple fact is that mandatory products are never the best products, else they wouldn't be mandatory. This is true of everything in life. Mandates only do things people wouldn't voluntarily do otherwise, and people in general don't do things just to be wrong.
Quote:Lightning is outdated when it comes to data transfer speed, charging capacity and connecting peripherals.
You can see that the iPad became a real competitor for laptops, when they switched from Lightning to USB-C (again, USB-C is so much more than just charging).
To say that USB-C never will is short-sighted. The bottom line, one of the reasons why I want to keep the barrel socket, is that it does not transfer data. (Of course, this is technically possible. But it's reasonable to assume that barrel chargers on the market will not be transferring data.)
My reasons again for wanting to keep the barrel socket:
1) It's more durable
2) It's less proprietary (again, anyone with a lathe can make barrel plugs and sockets, who can make USB-C?)
3) It's capable of higher current, that is, higher power, without (problematic in my opinion) voltage-negotiation.
4) It doesn't transfer data. There is no need to hack a cable to make sure that it can't transfer data.
5) It can be connected with individual conductors in an emergency. Yes, really. This simply can't be done with USB-A,-B,-C,-D,-whatever.
6) There isn't any licencing
Quote:How is that for fighting e-waste?
There it is. See, there is an agenda (read excuse). But let's not argue about that because I have a real problem with modern throw-away consumerism which is also the root problem of that paradigm. If you really cared about e-waste, you wouldn't buy new products so you wouldn't have USB-C anyway.
I don't intend to argue anymore anyway. We have both stated our cases and it is doubtful either of us will change each other's view.
(09-27-2021, 12:54 PM)KC9UDX Wrote: If USB-C was so vastly superiour, there would be no mandate. EU did not do this reluctantly. EU has some kind of agenda. Perhaps it really is some utopian Earth-saving agenda, I don't know or care. But there is an agenda. The simple fact is that mandatory products are never the best products, else they wouldn't be mandatory. This is true of everything in life. Mandates only do things people wouldn't voluntarily do otherwise, and people in general don't do things just to be wrong. You are simply not listening.
When you read something positive about USB-C or someone pushing USB-C, your first response is to disagree, regardless of what was actually written and you interject your own false accusations.
I never claimed USB-C is vastly superiour, you are falsely accusing me here.
I only wrote USB-C is superiour over Lightning, as those were the two competing options out there.
Back in 2018 the EU didn't mandate USB-C, only that the market would agree on a common connector.
Everyone except Apple went with USB-C and implemented it.
Now Apple needs a last push to get rid of Lightning with the iPhone.
You admit you don't know or care about the agenda of the EU, yet you do accuse the EU that they didn't do this reluctantly.
I'd say you can only make this kind of accusation when you know, or at least have tried to investigate it.
Now it's just another false accusation.
This legislation goes all the way back to 2013.
I'm not expecting you to change your mind (and you don't have to), just that you stick to the facts.
(09-27-2021, 12:54 PM)KC9UDX Wrote: My reasons again for wanting to keep the barrel socket:
1) It's more durable
2) It's less proprietary (again, anyone with a lathe can make barrel plugs and sockets, who can make USB-C?)
3) It's capable of higher current, that is, higher power, without (problematic in my opinion) voltage-negotiation.
4) It doesn't transfer data. There is no need to hack a cable to make sure that it can't transfer data.
5) It can be connected with individual conductors in an emergency. Yes, really. This simply can't be done with USB-A,-B,-C,-D,-whatever.
6) There isn't any licencing
I heavily disagree with some of these points.
I was unlucky enough to break my barrel charger (the cable). I have a power cord of a Netgear switch which has the same physical dimensions and is rated at the same voltage and amperage as the PineBook Pro charger. Yet, if I plug it in my PineBook Pro, it is not recognized, it doesn't charge.
If I want a barrel charger that is guaranteed to work, then I would have to buy it at the pine64.com store.
I tried bending it back into shape and cutting off the plastic. The plug doesn't fit anymore, but at least it does charge the PBP.
If the USB-C port worked up to specification, then I could have just replaced the charging cable with another USB-C cable.
The big problem is that the USB-C port on the PBP doesn't work as it should
- Power input is limited to 11.5W (not enough at full load)
- Power output is limited, causing some peripherals to fail.
- The socket is not rotation proof
All these things are mistakes on Pine64's side. I am all in favor of using USB-C in future products. It would make it easier to replace a charger cable like in my case.
(09-27-2021, 12:54 PM)KC9UDX Wrote: Non-sequitir. I was going to point this out the last time you posited this, but I didn't want to argue. Different shapes of "barrel connector" were not that many. Cases where companies use odd shapes to captively sell wall warts are rare or none. Producers either buy styles that were cheap and common, or are trying to prevent people from connecting devices of incorrect voltage. Even if they were profiteering, they weren't doing a very good job: Universal adapters for these connectors have been plentiful for 40 years. One could argue that they were using odd voltage for profiteering, but that is a different topic. Pine products all use the same, common size, shape, and voltage, as far as I know.
Sorry to come back on this topic, but I just received a PineTab and that one has a tiny barrel port, definitely not the same as the Pinebook Pro.
And I don't know what qualifies as "not that many" in your book, but you can find plenty different sizes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaxial_power_connector
Can the discussion on barrel jacks vs USB-C please be dropped or moved elsewhere? It's gotten laughably tangential to the actual discussion.
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