07-17-2020, 05:51 PM
Reading through this thread and especially the frame of the complaints...
I believe Jazzband has tried to articulate layered and nuanced point. But his point is getting caught on the barbs of loyalty. This frame will make sense and resolve itself most easily from a tangent. There is a really Important Point. & my opinion is what here needs coherent discourse around it, accounting for the layers that are harder to see in this. It was suggested this discussion arc jump to another thread, which I believe makes good sense at some point.
Anyways:
***
My perspective is I want Pine64 to grow. I want hardware manufacturing that is community driven to succeed. I value that the alpha and beta phases of product development are done Open Development style. This causes feedback and design choice to deeply orient toward what people find valuable in hardware, instead of following the extractive and perverse incentive structure of most standard business models.
This Open Development model comes with hazards. One of which is the Risk Management point that Jazzband makes. We can deal with, handle, resolve and manage these risks. If we do it well and responsibly as both Community and Business there is massive potential here. But we can screw it up by not taking the time for deeper consideration. I won't provide a list of suggestions, but that is where I would like to get to eventually.
We need to build process that reduces risks and effectively manages the risks we are willing to accept as a community to be on the inside of this Open Development process. We need to take some tradeoffs and make choices in order to build the framework that will allow all of this to scale to the broader public.
***
I'm quite new here. I know that there is a shared understanding expectations between Community & Business, built since Pine started in 2015. The trust is built on that history, which I'm not a part of, (yet). I respect that, but the point that Jazzband is making aligns more with where my head is at, I see the potential of this.
A version of Pine64 & its Community that can scale. A version that can provide a high reliability manufacturing run of Linux Phones & Tablets that Dual Boot with a AOSP like LineageOS, making convergent hardware available to the world as we reach the limits of Moore's Law, and start to see the worst predatory business practices take over as market trends radically shift.
Pine64 is currently a proof of concept that the approach to hardware/software can be different, and that that different approach isn't restricted to only hobby hardware. Pine has succeeded with bringing a Linux Phone to market where all others have failed. This is really impressive! But to make the most of this success is going to mean a lot of change. I don't see how it could play out another way.
***
We're all on the same team. I came here from the wilds of the internet drew me in god knows how. I came away from my first exposure really impressed by everything I saw Pine doing. I like what small bit of the community I've seen & interacted with, quite helpful & friendly.
I'm saying this like this, as I believe that I have arrived here just on the other side of Pandora's Box. I do not know enough to know if anyone else sees it that way, and I have been too busy in life to lurkmore, but stumbled upon this thread and felt compelled to share 2 cents, perspective et al.
Hopefully this comment is welcome & Cheers,
Geo
I believe Jazzband has tried to articulate layered and nuanced point. But his point is getting caught on the barbs of loyalty. This frame will make sense and resolve itself most easily from a tangent. There is a really Important Point. & my opinion is what here needs coherent discourse around it, accounting for the layers that are harder to see in this. It was suggested this discussion arc jump to another thread, which I believe makes good sense at some point.
Anyways:
***
My perspective is I want Pine64 to grow. I want hardware manufacturing that is community driven to succeed. I value that the alpha and beta phases of product development are done Open Development style. This causes feedback and design choice to deeply orient toward what people find valuable in hardware, instead of following the extractive and perverse incentive structure of most standard business models.
This Open Development model comes with hazards. One of which is the Risk Management point that Jazzband makes. We can deal with, handle, resolve and manage these risks. If we do it well and responsibly as both Community and Business there is massive potential here. But we can screw it up by not taking the time for deeper consideration. I won't provide a list of suggestions, but that is where I would like to get to eventually.
We need to build process that reduces risks and effectively manages the risks we are willing to accept as a community to be on the inside of this Open Development process. We need to take some tradeoffs and make choices in order to build the framework that will allow all of this to scale to the broader public.
***
I'm quite new here. I know that there is a shared understanding expectations between Community & Business, built since Pine started in 2015. The trust is built on that history, which I'm not a part of, (yet). I respect that, but the point that Jazzband is making aligns more with where my head is at, I see the potential of this.
A version of Pine64 & its Community that can scale. A version that can provide a high reliability manufacturing run of Linux Phones & Tablets that Dual Boot with a AOSP like LineageOS, making convergent hardware available to the world as we reach the limits of Moore's Law, and start to see the worst predatory business practices take over as market trends radically shift.
Pine64 is currently a proof of concept that the approach to hardware/software can be different, and that that different approach isn't restricted to only hobby hardware. Pine has succeeded with bringing a Linux Phone to market where all others have failed. This is really impressive! But to make the most of this success is going to mean a lot of change. I don't see how it could play out another way.
***
We're all on the same team. I came here from the wilds of the internet drew me in god knows how. I came away from my first exposure really impressed by everything I saw Pine doing. I like what small bit of the community I've seen & interacted with, quite helpful & friendly.
I'm saying this like this, as I believe that I have arrived here just on the other side of Pandora's Box. I do not know enough to know if anyone else sees it that way, and I have been too busy in life to lurkmore, but stumbled upon this thread and felt compelled to share 2 cents, perspective et al.
Hopefully this comment is welcome & Cheers,
Geo
