Let's talk about safety of Pinephone
#31
(10-08-2020, 05:23 PM)Alho Wrote:
(10-08-2020, 09:05 AM)wibble Wrote: Given that 'this problem' is actually several problems there is no single solution. This is a potential long term solution to problem part 4 that Megous identified - the limit on battery discharge rate being lower than the potential power consumption of the device. While it mostly talks about power usage in terms of its relation to temperature, it is equally applicable to how much is being drawn from the power supply.

There is no overheating problem here at all. According to the conventional performance tests of the battery,
the battery can be discharged with a 1C load - and should last at least 54 mins.

I doubt that we can easily put an 1C load to the battery (2.8A) in the phone.

The same performance tests also indicate that the battery can be charged with 1C
which should give it a full charge (0-100% in less than 2.5 hours.

That said, using 1C may wear the battery down faster than using the usual 0.5C
but there is no safety risk involved.
Reference please - it's good news if true, but the datasheet specifies 0.5C for maximum sustained charge and discharge current. Perhaps they're being overly conservative, but I'd like to see some good evidence before declaring it safe to operate at double that.

https://wiki.pine64.org/images/0/04/Pine...2-2750.pdf
  Reply
#32
(10-09-2020, 07:29 AM)wibble Wrote:
(10-08-2020, 05:23 PM)Alho Wrote:
(10-08-2020, 09:05 AM)wibble Wrote: Given that 'this problem' is actually several problems there is no single solution. This is a potential long term solution to problem part 4 that Megous identified - the limit on battery discharge rate being lower than the potential power consumption of the device. While it mostly talks about power usage in terms of its relation to temperature, it is equally applicable to how much is being drawn from the power supply.

There is no overheating problem here at all. According to the conventional performance tests of the battery,
the battery can be discharged with a 1C load - and should last at least 54 mins.

I doubt that we can easily put an 1C load to the battery (2.8A) in the phone.

The same performance tests also indicate that the battery can be charged with 1C
which should give it a full charge (0-100% in less than 2.5 hours.

That said, using 1C may wear the battery down faster than using the usual 0.5C
but there is no safety risk involved.
Reference please - it's good news if true, but the datasheet specifies 0.5C for maximum sustained charge and discharge current. Perhaps they're being overly conservative, but I'd like to see some good evidence before declaring it safe to operate at double that.

https://wiki.pine64.org/images/0/04/Pine...2-2750.pdf

You simply have to read the right spec file :-)
Your linked one is for the v1.0 dev phone
The batteries for 1.1 BH and up is here:
http://files.pine64.org/doc/datasheet/pi...cation.pdf

Read §5.1 Conventional performance
  Reply
#33
(10-09-2020, 11:07 AM)Alho Wrote:
(10-09-2020, 07:29 AM)wibble Wrote:
(10-08-2020, 05:23 PM)Alho Wrote:
(10-08-2020, 09:05 AM)wibble Wrote: Given that 'this problem' is actually several problems there is no single solution. This is a potential long term solution to problem part 4 that Megous identified - the limit on battery discharge rate being lower than the potential power consumption of the device. While it mostly talks about power usage in terms of its relation to temperature, it is equally applicable to how much is being drawn from the power supply.

There is no overheating problem here at all. According to the conventional performance tests of the battery,
the battery can be discharged with a 1C load - and should last at least 54 mins.

I doubt that we can easily put an 1C load to the battery (2.8A) in the phone.

The same performance tests also indicate that the battery can be charged with 1C
which should give it a full charge (0-100% in less than 2.5 hours.

That said, using 1C may wear the battery down faster than using the usual 0.5C
but there is no safety risk involved.
Reference please - it's good news if true, but the datasheet specifies 0.5C for maximum sustained charge and discharge current. Perhaps they're being overly conservative, but I'd like to see some good evidence before declaring it safe to operate at double that.

https://wiki.pine64.org/images/0/04/Pine...2-2750.pdf

You simply have to read the right spec file :-)
Your linked one is for the v1.0 dev phone
The batteries for 1.1 BH and up is here:
http://files.pine64.org/doc/datasheet/pi...cation.pdf

Read §5.1 Conventional performance

Good find
  Reply
#34
(10-09-2020, 11:07 AM)Alho Wrote:
(10-09-2020, 07:29 AM)wibble Wrote:
(10-08-2020, 05:23 PM)Alho Wrote:
(10-08-2020, 09:05 AM)wibble Wrote: Given that 'this problem' is actually several problems there is no single solution. This is a potential long term solution to problem part 4 that Megous identified - the limit on battery discharge rate being lower than the potential power consumption of the device. While it mostly talks about power usage in terms of its relation to temperature, it is equally applicable to how much is being drawn from the power supply.

There is no overheating problem here at all. According to the conventional performance tests of the battery,
the battery can be discharged with a 1C load - and should last at least 54 mins.

I doubt that we can easily put an 1C load to the battery (2.8A) in the phone.

The same performance tests also indicate that the battery can be charged with 1C
which should give it a full charge (0-100% in less than 2.5 hours.

That said, using 1C may wear the battery down faster than using the usual 0.5C
but there is no safety risk involved.
Reference please - it's good news if true, but the datasheet specifies 0.5C for maximum sustained charge and discharge current. Perhaps they're being overly conservative, but I'd like to see some good evidence before declaring it safe to operate at double that.

https://wiki.pine64.org/images/0/04/Pine...2-2750.pdf

You simply have to read the right spec file :-)
Your linked one is for the v1.0 dev phone
The batteries for 1.1 BH and up is here:
http://files.pine64.org/doc/datasheet/pi...cation.pdf

Read §5.1 Conventional performance
Thanks - link in the wiki Battery section corrected so nobody else makes the same mistake ;-)
  Reply
#35
Doesn't the Lithium Ion battery itself have some physical circuitry that protects things like shortcuts, over-charges and heats up and expands the battery, irrespective of software, and catches fire?
  Reply
#36
Yes, it does have such a safety circuit. It is described in the spec sheet.
  Reply


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