are you still using pinephone as a daily driver?

[PineFone]

"But perhaps I get you wrong somehow?"
I agree with the points you made, but I did say I have a FEW suggestions and the 2nd one isn't worth mentioning if the first one, a battery life friendly OS, isn't possible.

Looked into the Genode OS link you posted and as of early Jan 2023, they're currently beta testing their latest PinePhone image among themselves before publicly posting. Based on the screen grabs and details, their micro kernel looks promising considering they've been working on their PP version for awhile.

"(but I would add "hardware quality" as another point - the most important one)"
Can't do anything about the hardware and given supply interruptions, Pine64 likely can't do much in the short term either. My most important one is the concern that PP actually gets things going and then gets deplatformed from carriers.

"So why use a Linux phone/Pine64 product at all if it only should behave like an old Nokia?"
Assuming the best case scenario that Genode OS delivers a "MID-Phone" to achieve my first suggestion, my second suggestion is for PP to take advantage of the PP LoRa back end case add on ( https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-pin...d-on-case/ ) to form a P2P mesh network that can bypass carriers for privacy, freedom, etc.

I'm a fan of the Reticulum project that's currently doing this with Android for text messages:
https://unsigned.io/guides/2023_01_19_RN...droid.html

It's open source and it's been discussed that it can be ported to PP. It has the potential to be larger than Meshtastic by cross platform linking up Androids, Laptops, (PP's?), and Ham Radio running their RNode setup.

There are python based laptop programs that allow people to make calls and if this can be ported to a Reticulum/Genode OS setup without irking battery power too much, then you've got a PinePhone without the need for a carrier.

And that's the kind of real innovation worthy of Linux instead of trying to play catch up with Android and iPhone all the time.

If the Reticulum option is a no go (too difficult, can't manage a collaboration, etc.), there's always building out a lesser network using the mesh p2p designed by JF (mentioned on the PP LoRa product page).

[dante404]

@PineFone: I have to admit: You have really thought that through! Interesting ideas indeed.

Looked into the Genode OS link you posted and as of early Jan 2023

That definitely wasn't me - Everything I currently know about Genode OS is... the name.

[moodroid]

I've tried daily driving a few times over the last few years, but there's one thing that always forces me to go back to my old phone - unreliability of texts/sms.Specifically, this is automated texts/sms - the kind that my bank send me when I try and log in and the kind that the company I work for sends me when I try and log in. I don't know whether all 'normal' texts/sms come through, but they certainly seem to be more reliable than the automated type. But the weird thing is, nobody else seems to have this problem.

No disrespect to the brilliant work people have to done on ModemManager (e.g. Chris/kop), but I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that ModemManager is the problem. Back when Plamsa Mobile used to use ofono, I'd be running Mobian from my emmc and would be missing messages, then I'd reboot into Plasma Mobile on the sd card and they would appear. More recently, the same thing happened with a reboot into Sailfish (also ofono based). It wasn't the reboot that caused the missing messages to come through, as the problem even persisted throughout a reinstall of Mobian. I know I should try and capture some logs, but have never got round to it.

I might try daily driving with Sailfish, but it's not really what I want, as I'd like to be able to use Linux desktop software. I am looking forward to trying Maemo Leste (also ofono based), as it's sounds like it's close to becoming usable.

[zetabeta]

I've tried daily driving a few times over the last few years, but there's one thing that always forces me to go back to my old phone - unreliability of texts/sms.Specifically, this is automated texts/sms - the kind that my bank send me when I try and log in and the kind that the company I work for sends me when I try and log in. I don't know whether all 'normal' texts/sms come through, but they certainly seem to be more reliable than the automated type. But the weird thing is, nobody else seems to have this problem.

No disrespect to the brilliant work people have to done on ModemManager (e.g. Chris/kop), but I believe (perhaps incorrectly) that ModemManager is the problem. Back when Plamsa Mobile used to use ofono, I'd be running Mobian from my emmc and would be missing messages, then I'd reboot into Plasma Mobile on the sd card and they would appear. More recently, the same thing happened with a reboot into Sailfish (also ofono based). It wasn't the reboot that caused the missing messages to come through, as the problem even persisted throughout a reinstall of Mobian. I know I should try and capture some logs, but have never got round to it.

I might try daily driving with Sailfish, but it's not really what I want, as I'd like to be able to use Linux desktop software. I am looking forward to trying Maemo Leste (also ofono based), as it's sounds like it's close to becoming usable.

might be related.

i found weird design flaw with showing senders number in sms. chatty converts sender's number from national format to international format and vice versa. device or software should NOT do that at all, maybe operator/carrier could, but that's different issue. what makes this worse, conversions are sometimes wrong. sender's field is essential a string data.

if this bug is true, you should document it and get information as much as possible. this issue might be a big headache for me.

[gamerminstrel]

Maybe I'm a bit of a weird case, but I really don't think call functionality is the issue with the Pinephone. its Software stability whatsoever. For several months now, I've been regularly re-flashing the latest stable build of Manjaro+Plasma Mobile, and the constant bugging out and crashing is what makes it hard for me to even try using it over an Android phone for basic tasks.

Every time the phone boots, it gives an error notification that Discover failed to install an update. Been an issue for at least a year.
Want to use a web browser? Plasma Mobile will crash after a few minutes.
Want to plug the phone into a USB-C hub to use like a desktop (Convergence)? the phone will hang and Plasma Mobile will crash after a few minutes.
Want to wake the phone from sleep? There's a solid chance that the lock screen function broke, gonna have to reboot.

Yes, I know you can use a slew of other OSes that try to fix whatever specific issue, but I'm using the OS that the phone ships with. The default. You know, the setup that is supposed to be the flagship showcase of what this phone can do.

It's just a wildly unstable mess, and I wanted to complain about it. Sorry.

[PineFone]

Genode OS has their battery friendly PP image ready for public testing (I'll do a stand alone post as well):

https://genodians.org/nfeske/2023-02-01-mobile-sculpt

https://depot.genode.org/nfeske/image/

[dante404]

-> "I daily drived before (2021 and before) and now (2022 and 2023)."
..."before" because I liked it and wanted to use it, "now" (with obviously dying PP hardware) only because currently I don't have any other option at hand.

Personal update: In the last 2 days my primary PinePhone does "only" crash or freeze 2-3 times a day , NO LONGER every 5-10 minutes! That's nice of course , but I don't understand... why. Hardware won't fix itself, but if it was a software problem - Why didn't other Mobian-PinePhone users (AFAIK) have crashes/freezes every few minutes the last weeks...!? I really don't get it.

[zetabeta]

-> "I daily drived before (2021 and before) and now (2022 and 2023)."
..."before" because I liked it and wanted to use it, "now" (with obviously dying PP hardware) only because currently I don't have any other option at hand.

Personal update: In the last 2 days my primary PinePhone does "only" crash or freeze 2-3 times a day , NO LONGER every 5-10 minutes! That's nice of course , but I don't understand... why. Hardware won't fix itself, but if it was a software problem - Why didn't other Mobian-PinePhone users (AFAIK) have crashes/freezes every few minutes the last weeks...!? I really don't get it.

this is what i'm afraid of. you may have faulty hardware in little degree, which can be avoided by software. all users do not have this fault and avoid it by default. what exaggerates the issue, most users use only a little bit, not all day long.

might be related, i noticed a bug in mobian phosh and manjaro phosh that when opened a certain big windows, it crashes. however only app crashes not the whole system.

---

this conclusion is preliminary about poll.

i was little surprised of results. i am looking mostly the vote count, which is at 25 at the moment. when i looked my previous poll here https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?...p+pro+poll , which has 31 votes. comparing 25 to 31, i think pinephone users are out there. of course, these polls are inaccurate.

talking about skewed results, world has 8 billion people who does not own a pinephone, still no one voted for the last option "i do not own pinephone at all.".

[dante404]

this is what i'm afraid of. you may have faulty hardware in little degree, which can be avoided by software. all users do not have this fault and avoid it by default. what exaggerates the issue, most users use only a little bit, not all day long.

Sounds a bit wierd, but I guess you have to be right on this...

might be related, i noticed a bug in mobian phosh and manjaro phosh that when opened a certain big windows, it crashes. however only app crashes not the whole system.

...and you can't start the same app after it crashed, right? (Until a reboot of course)
That's what I have sometimes now (Axolotl or Terminal for example) - New to me.

[Nooblife]

I never daily drived it because the battery drains fast, modem was unreliable and I got no push notifications for "signal". I don't regret buying one though, and still check on the status.

Today i daily drive a Fairphone 4 with Ubuntu Touch, and love the experience.