07-26-2020, 03:16 PM
Hi :-)
Just wanted to tune in and try to move the focus a bit because it feels to me that this discussion about company processes is going nowhere.
Pine64 is a very specific type of organisation.
Whether or not @Jazzbands or anyone else's recommendations are helpful for processing large amounts of unhappy customers are not relevant.
Pine64 will look at the recommendations, look at their philosophy and then rightfully ignore the recommendation - because it doesn't align with the company goals.
First sentence: It's a community platform.
The moment you become a customer, you become part of the community.
The community can influence how a device is made available and, yes, that includes taking care of problems - luckily.
But that doesn't mean an unhappy customer has the right to tell any other member of the community how they should be doing their job!
Pine64 is very open about the problems they're facing and is open to solutions at any time.
@Jazzband, you're suggesting that a group of enthusiasts working to produce affordable and open hardware put in extra work and money to deal with - i'm sorry for being so deprecative - troublemakers.
You want to buy a Samsung phone on amazon. It isn't LIBRE, it exploits basically everyone involved in bringing it to your doorstep, and it includes a premium for extended stock, customer care - all that stuff you're asking for.
Again, sorry for being so deprecative. If you experience mental pain from delays because of unforeseen events, you shouldn't be buying anything from pine64.
If any process need to be implemented, it's probably that customers should be asked explicitly to confirm that they understand what pine64 will and will not do for them.
Mabye a questionaire ("Do you understand that your phone is being manufactured for you?", "Do you understand that pine64 doesn't keep huge reserves of phones for when a global pandemic slows down the manufacturing process?").
Or perhaps the word "store" misleads people into thinking pine64 is a company like apple?
It's becoming less and less surprising to see how few people actually inform themselves about the stuff they buy and where they buy it from.
What keeps surprising me is how convinced they are about being in any position to make demands when they're behaving like pricks.
And that's the reason i'm making this post: To provide a clear counter-reaction.
Now about the suggestions:
That doesn't fit the company model. The price is kept close to the costs of manufacturing + handling.
Answering questions from people who can't be bothered to follow the collaborative work, read the news blog, or read about the company isn't part of manufacturing or handling.
Granted, there are things that businesses can do to somehow mitigate these kinds of problems but it comes at a price.
Planning for the unexpectable is not something any business can do. All you can do is get an insurance.
You're not impatient, you're ignorant.
Of the fact that the company and the product don't allow for the kind of measures you're asking for.
You're not entitled, you're presumptuous.
If this was what you were looking for in pine64, why didn't you check beforehand?
I honestly believe that if you had checked out what kind of company pine64 is, you wouldn't have to make snarky comments on these forums.
You act like you know what's important for a business to serve customers like you.
Go start your own!
You already have a potential customer.
Your expectations aren't "warped" - they're plain unrealistic.
Why on earth would you think that pine64 was/should be doing all those things?
Pine64 is very clear about what they are doing.
This is starting to be repetitive. Person with the longest breath wins:
Either you become part of the community and do a better job or you explain what it was made you think anyone would be doing that for you.
What kind of person are you? An investor? :-D
How do you know there was enough money to do all that?
You're still throwing around asumptions
Are you saying there were clear signs for a failure in production that would've allowed for that decision to be made?
Maybe not an investor. A fortune-teller?
This is a community service. So you're a volunteer ready to answer all those support mails?
You came in here throwing accusations at people working for you for practically free.
Pine64 isn't aiming to make profits, remember?
Don't be so suprised about the retaliations after 4 pages of.. well let's just stick with "troublemaking".
If you got nothing substantial to say, i recommend you lay low for a while and not make things worse for you.
hoping for the next post to be less frustrating,
kind regards
Just wanted to tune in and try to move the focus a bit because it feels to me that this discussion about company processes is going nowhere.
Pine64 is a very specific type of organisation.
Whether or not @Jazzbands or anyone else's recommendations are helpful for processing large amounts of unhappy customers are not relevant.
Pine64 will look at the recommendations, look at their philosophy and then rightfully ignore the recommendation - because it doesn't align with the company goals.
First sentence: It's a community platform.
The moment you become a customer, you become part of the community.
The community can influence how a device is made available and, yes, that includes taking care of problems - luckily.
But that doesn't mean an unhappy customer has the right to tell any other member of the community how they should be doing their job!
Pine64 is very open about the problems they're facing and is open to solutions at any time.
@Jazzband, you're suggesting that a group of enthusiasts working to produce affordable and open hardware put in extra work and money to deal with - i'm sorry for being so deprecative - troublemakers.
You want to buy a Samsung phone on amazon. It isn't LIBRE, it exploits basically everyone involved in bringing it to your doorstep, and it includes a premium for extended stock, customer care - all that stuff you're asking for.
Again, sorry for being so deprecative. If you experience mental pain from delays because of unforeseen events, you shouldn't be buying anything from pine64.
If any process need to be implemented, it's probably that customers should be asked explicitly to confirm that they understand what pine64 will and will not do for them.
Mabye a questionaire ("Do you understand that your phone is being manufactured for you?", "Do you understand that pine64 doesn't keep huge reserves of phones for when a global pandemic slows down the manufacturing process?").
Or perhaps the word "store" misleads people into thinking pine64 is a company like apple?
It's becoming less and less surprising to see how few people actually inform themselves about the stuff they buy and where they buy it from.
What keeps surprising me is how convinced they are about being in any position to make demands when they're behaving like pricks.
And that's the reason i'm making this post: To provide a clear counter-reaction.
Now about the suggestions:
(07-18-2020, 12:15 PM)Jazzband Wrote: [outsourcing the 1st line of support, scaling]
That doesn't fit the company model. The price is kept close to the costs of manufacturing + handling.
Answering questions from people who can't be bothered to follow the collaborative work, read the news blog, or read about the company isn't part of manufacturing or handling.
Quote:["unexpected" things could've been easily predicted and mitigated]
Granted, there are things that businesses can do to somehow mitigate these kinds of problems but it comes at a price.
Planning for the unexpectable is not something any business can do. All you can do is get an insurance.
Quote:customers' expectations of Pine64: [Pine fulfill their obligations, provide warranty service, have shipping figured out, ...] Yet somehow we, the customers, are not allowed to have the same level of expectations of Pine64. No, we're just "impatient", "unreasonable" and "entitled".
You're not impatient, you're ignorant.
Of the fact that the company and the product don't allow for the kind of measures you're asking for.
You're not entitled, you're presumptuous.
If this was what you were looking for in pine64, why didn't you check beforehand?
I honestly believe that if you had checked out what kind of company pine64 is, you wouldn't have to make snarky comments on these forums.
You act like you know what's important for a business to serve customers like you.
Go start your own!
You already have a potential customer.
Quote:Finally, the fact that your expectations of Pine64 are lower than mine doesn't automatically mean that my expectations are somehow unreasonable or "warped".
Your expectations aren't "warped" - they're plain unrealistic.
Why on earth would you think that pine64 was/should be doing all those things?
Pine64 is very clear about what they are doing.
Quote:Changing factories AFTER they messed up is not a "Plan B". That's being reactive, whereas I'm saying Pine64 could and should have been proactive. For example, knowing they won't have access to the factory to test the devices before shipment, they should've planned to test them somewhere else instead. Basically, do what Pine64 eventually did, but for the whole production run and not just the second half of it.
This is starting to be repetitive. Person with the longest breath wins:
Either you become part of the community and do a better job or you explain what it was made you think anyone would be doing that for you.
Quote:Or have a smaller production run. And before you say anything about manufacturing cost, somehow Pine's previous production runs were smaller than the last one, and they still managed to make the ends meet. Or, failing that, raise the prices, maybe even make a little bit of profit and use it to rent a warehouse to perform an independent QA, or hire more support agents...
What kind of person are you? An investor? :-D
How do you know there was enough money to do all that?
Quote:Or, you know, do the responsible thing: analyze the risks involved, see how many things could go wrong, and postpone the production run altogether. Somehow everyone keeps forgetting that's also an option.
You're still throwing around asumptions
Are you saying there were clear signs for a failure in production that would've allowed for that decision to be made?
Maybe not an investor. A fortune-teller?
Quote:Pine's excuse for lack of support is their lack of staff to provide said support. They knew their production run is going to be much bigger, they could've planned for this and hired more staff. To hire more staff they could've raised prices. Yet they did nothing.
This is a community service. So you're a volunteer ready to answer all those support mails?
Quote:Quote:I'm sorry, I made the assumptions that you would be mentally capable of connecting the dots.
The fact that you're crossing the line and making this personal by implying that I disagree with your position because my mental capabilities are somehow inferior to yours doesn't make you look good, or make me want to continue this discussion with you. So this will be my last response to your comments.
You came in here throwing accusations at people working for you for practically free.
Pine64 isn't aiming to make profits, remember?
Don't be so suprised about the retaliations after 4 pages of.. well let's just stick with "troublemaking".
If you got nothing substantial to say, i recommend you lay low for a while and not make things worse for you.
hoping for the next post to be less frustrating,
kind regards
