google will take control of android in the future.
moderators may not like this topic, which is basically google and android bashing.
i predicted somewhere around that 2021, google will lock android somehow within few years. introducing fuchsiaos kernel, banning bootloader unlocking, using more closed components, changing api in android core and so on. google already has "google play services" and "google play", which are closed components and many android apps are dependent on those.
so i basically, repeat same prediction, open android is gone after few years, maybe 2027.
ungoogled android is still open now, but i predict that ungoogled android is practically gone after few years, android will be like what ios is now.
google/alphabet/youtube is reportedly slowing down youtube (some users report this). google plans to introduce banning ad blockers in chrome (i don't know chromium though), https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/11/...june-2024/ . these are worrisome developments.
just in case, apple's system are totally controlled by apple. including macs with m-chips.
looking back, maybe i knew more or less few years back, and i went to pinephone train. in short, there's not going to be software and hardware freedom in android.
Don't forget the "security" shenanigans, where banking apps and some other random apps can arbitrarily refuse to run on a custom Android fork (or even a rooted standard Android), at least unless that fork patches those "security" APIs to lie to the applications (which some forks such as LineageOS are unwilling to do).
The sad thing is that almost all people are going to happily put up with all the Google restrictions, just as they did or do with the ones from Microsoft and Apple. And even for those who do not, there is often no workable alternative. There are several reasons why the PinePhone (or PinePhone Pro, or even the Librem 5 for that matter) is not for everyone. (Everyone here knows them: software bugs, application compatibility, power consumption, in some countries also carrier compatibility.) I wish it were, but I doubt that is an expectation it can fulfill any time soon.
Can some people like you or me use the PinePhone instead of an Android phone? Sure. (At least as long as I can get away with not being able to run the apps everyone, from governments to public transport companies and supermarkets, keeps releasing. But I can be very stubborn there. E.g., I still use the paper forms for wire transfers.) Will everyone be able to do the same eventually? Sadly, I doubt it, as much as I would like it to be the case.
(11-21-2023, 11:06 PM)Kevin Kofler Wrote: Don't forget the "security" shenanigans, where banking apps and some other random apps can arbitrarily refuse to run on a custom Android fork (or even a rooted standard Android), at least unless that fork patches those "security" APIs to lie to the applications (which some forks such as LineageOS are unwilling to do).
The sad thing is that almost all people are going to happily put up with all the Google restrictions, just as they did or do with the ones from Microsoft and Apple. And even for those who do not, there is often no workable alternative. There are several reasons why the PinePhone (or PinePhone Pro, or even the Librem 5 for that matter) is not for everyone. (Everyone here knows them: software bugs, application compatibility, power consumption, in some countries also carrier compatibility.) I wish it were, but I doubt that is an expectation it can fulfill any time soon.
Can some people like you or me use the PinePhone instead of an Android phone? Sure. (At least as long as I can get away with not being able to run the apps everyone, from governments to public transport companies and supermarkets, keeps releasing. But I can be very stubborn there. E.g., I still use the paper forms for wire transfers.) Will everyone be able to do the same eventually? Sadly, I doubt it, as much as I would like it to be the case.
forcing closed platforms is just disgusting. i have a feeling that most people think that when there is g-logo or apple-logo, it is good option. many cases there is open or generic alternative, but it is not used. how many things can be done with HTML5. one example is, 2FA, there is TOTP, which i think is a good generic standard, but organizations go with closed options, quite often uses push messages.
microsoft feels like a good guy after these years. even though windows software was/is closed, software and windows was re-installable. and anyone could write software to windows. in contrast to android and ios, apps are quite often locked to a installation, so re-installation or masterreset is burdensome project. (i don't like to defend microsoft too much).
related point. many people have put critical apps into a closed platform, e.g. google play and ios. like banking apps or authenticating apps. what about if smartdevice is lost, stolen, broken, hacked or something. what you do about in such situation. maybe person has two smartdevices. but in my view there should non-closed external options for these critical apps.
half-humor. this microsoft vodka didn't work, but there is google whiskey and apple brandy, those will fix everything.
Microsoft? You should've used Amiga. There's no registry; you can copy any software installation from one machine to another.
I get lambasted for my predictions. One of them is that when the majority of home computer users switch to Linux, all Linux will be Ubuntu and it will be as bloated and ungrokable as Windows XIII, with large parts of it closed-source.
My favourite "security" method is "send us your phone number so we can text you a 6 digit number". I couldn't tell you how many times I've encountered that. So now the thief gave you their phone number in my name and now they're me and I'm not.
I always say, in the end, there's just no fun in saying "toljaso".
(11-22-2023, 02:40 AM)KC9UDX Wrote: Microsoft? You should've used Amiga. There's no registry; you can copy any software installation from one machine to another.
it feels little weird to half-defend microsoft after these years. even microsoft has gone nastier direction. still, i would rather use windows 11 than average android or apple's whatever. windows is getting worse in 10 and 11. yes, win registry is a mess.
(11-22-2023, 02:40 AM)KC9UDX Wrote: I get lambasted for my predictions. One of them is that when the majority of home computer users switch to Linux, all Linux will be Ubuntu and it will be as bloated and ungrokable as Windows XIII, with large parts of it closed-source.
chromebook!? unfortunately, open source can be bundled with closed stuff.
11-23-2023, 11:05 PM
(This post was last modified: 11-23-2023, 11:06 PM by Kevin Kofler.)
(11-21-2023, 11:49 PM)zetabeta Wrote: one example is, 2FA, there is TOTP, which i think is a good generic standard, but organizations go with closed options, quite often uses push messages. Well, the thing is, TOTP is a standard that puts the user in control and does not lock the user into a particular device, but that means the other end has no way to enforce that you do not store the password and the secret from which the TOTPs can be generated on the same device, nor even that you store the secret only on one device. (Hint: You can input the secret into as many apps and devices as you want. The same applications that run on the PinePhone also run on your GNU/Linux desktop/notebook, e.g., Keysmith or GNOME Secrets. You can even copy the Keysmith config file 1:1 between GNU/Linux machines including the PinePhone, you do not even need the plain text secret for that. But there is also nothing preventing you from saving the secret in plain text somewhere.) I personally like that flexibility, but I can see why that raises a red flag for the "security" people at banks who always want to force their "security" mechanisms on everyone whether they want it or not.
12-07-2023, 02:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-12-2023, 12:50 PM by mannzrespouse.)
Let's hope that developers and the community continue to fight for openness and freedom in the digital environment.... 
04-25-2024, 08:23 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-25-2024, 08:24 PM by TRS-80.)
(11-21-2023, 10:17 PM)zetabeta Wrote: google will take control of android in the future.
> will...
> in the future...
LOL!
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/...necessary/
Above is (updated) 2018 version of the article, which was actually originally published... wait for it... back in October, 2013 (over 10 years ago now!):
https://web.archive.org/web/201807191221...necessary/
(04-25-2024, 08:23 PM)TRS-80 Wrote: (11-21-2023, 10:17 PM)zetabeta Wrote: google will take control of android in the future.
> will...
> in the future...
LOL!
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/...necessary/
Above is (updated) 2018 version of the article, which was actually originally published... wait for it... back in October, 2013 (over 10 years ago now!):
https://web.archive.org/web/201807191221...necessary/
key points was said in the original post.
i knew that source already. which is basically for googled android, sometimes known as gms, google mobile services. googled android have been closed for some time already.
as of now, ungoogled (de-googled) android is a good comprromise, if user wants some control, no data collection, usability and no google components. and there is few companies and guys who sell those, ( i leave advertsing out ).
however, even open android or ungoogled android is not practically possible in the future, because alphabet inc has put so much obstacles to it. open android is so crippled it is unusable or forced to install google closed components.
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