Pinebook Pro/Pinetab replacement
#1
This product seems great. Also the UI of the OS looks very good.
Although the specs on the product page are wrong. It's actually 2 x A75 plus 6 x A55.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq6TE2nZz3M
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#2
There was some previous discussion about this here: https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=12826

(07-28-2021, 01:09 AM)as400 Wrote: Pinebook Pro/Pinetab replacement

To be a viable replacement for these devices, it will also need to be open source hardware (which I don't believe this device will be). If you're considering closed-source tablets that can run Linux, then the competitors for this device are significantly more. If the OS is not also entirely open source, then it is essentially competing with all Android devices too.

(07-28-2021, 01:09 AM)as400 Wrote: This product seems great. Also the UI of the OS looks very good.

People keep jumping up and down about how great it is, but I'm still waiting to see these devices in the hands of backers. I want to see the reviews from ordinary people - as they tend to be the harshest critics.

(07-28-2021, 01:09 AM)as400 Wrote: Although the specs on the product page are wrong. It's actually 2 x A75 plus 6 x A55.

For sure the Pinetab desperately needs a hardware upgrade. The big-little configuration seems to be quite a successful one and I hope Pine products can make use of this in the future.

(07-28-2021, 01:09 AM)as400 Wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq6TE2nZz3M

I still hold my reservations about this device: https://en.jingos.com/jingpad-a1/

Some things that still seem strange to me:

* The name 'A1' appears to be them selling on the recent 'M1' hype in the Apple product line. Their inspiration from the Apple product line is hardly hidden either '[..] which is inspired by the Apple Magic Keyboard for iPads.'.

* They appear to be building an Apple iPad competitor on a shoestring budget. It's not impossible, but it's a hell of an ask when you consider they have to pay their hardware and software engineers to build this thing behind closed doors, in under a year and initially without any community help.

* They have funded the product on IndieGoGo under 'flexible funding', for a really low goal amount: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/jingp...nux-tablet For such a ridiculously ambitious project the low funding goal raises alarms. The conditions of the funding means they don't have to even deliver a device.

* The display is an 11 inch 2K amoled touchscreen - which they're aiming to ship with during a massive display shortage. They are already on track to miss their original July 2021 production target. That's not to mention any chip shortages either. Even something as mundane as a gyro held the Pinetime production back for a little while, and that's a super simple device in comparison.

* Most of their major time table goals on their crowdfunding campaign are PR related - when there are literally tonnes of technical goals internally that need to be achieved.

I'm sure if I keep scratching I will find other issues too.

I think it will be great if this device ships and delivers all of the things they suggest it will, I'm just reserving some healthy scepticism for a new player to enter the game last minute and promise better performance than everybody else in the market.

What I'm concerned about is that tonnes of people will want to buy into this product line with unmanaged expectations, when even achieving just one of their goals in only a year is a massive undertaking. They are promising a new hardware platform, new OS and new app platform. What I suspect will happen is that customers will receive a half-baked product with hardware and software issues, the 'Jing Team' will provide only some limited support and then rely on the open source community to fix everything.

I'm happy to be proven wrong though and look forward to the result in any case.
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#3
I picked up a Pinebook from PINE64 in 2020 November, for my PHD research that is going to be published in https://eduhelphub.com/ in order to make quick research and data collection. Although the SuperTuxKart is not performing so well, however all other features are pretty good and has a great user friendly interface. My overall opinion on the product is in case of spreadsheet maintenances or browsing the product is quite handy.
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#4
(07-28-2021, 03:55 AM)barray Wrote: To be a viable replacement for these devices, it will also need to be open source hardware (which I don't believe this device will be). If you're considering closed-source tablets that can run Linux, then the competitors for this device are significantly more. If the OS is not also entirely open source, then it is essentially competing with all Android devices too.

There are no fully open source devices nowadays. There is always some part that has proprietary firmware. Like Pinebook Pro - trackpad, keyboard, eDP, USB-C etc.
Which ARM based mobile devices can run Linux (tablets and laptops) ? There are not many actually.

(07-28-2021, 03:55 AM)barray Wrote: What I suspect will happen is that customers will receive a half-baked product with hardware and software issues

Exactly like Pinebook Pro, Pinephone, Pinetab Smile
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#5
(07-28-2021, 06:20 AM)as400 Wrote: There are no fully open source devices nowadays. There is always some part that has proprietary firmware. Like Pinebook Pro - trackpad, keyboard, eDP, USB-C etc.

Are you aware of the efforts to open source the Pine firmware blobs? It has been pretty successful so far. Closed-source firmware blobs are a big problem though.

(07-28-2021, 06:20 AM)as400 Wrote: Which ARM based mobile devices can run Linux (tablets and laptops) ? There are not many actually.

ARM laptops that run Linux? Tonnes now. People have been quite successful at loading Linux onto Chromebooks for example.

Tablets are fewer, but it really depends on how open this device is to how many competitor devices there are. A tonne of closed source tablets that run Android can also be made to run Linux, for example.

(07-28-2021, 06:20 AM)as400 Wrote:
(07-28-2021, 03:55 AM)barray Wrote: What I suspect will happen is that customers will receive a half-baked product with hardware and software issues

Exactly like Pinebook Pro, Pinephone, Pinetab Smile

The difference being, Pine products are sold as a work-in-progress and have a price to match. The JingPad is selling as a 'ready to rock' daily driver device, something they will struggle to deliver on. Unless they get continued funding, it's something they are unlikely to be able to continue working on either.
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#6
I'm a little surprised. I've been following development on the OS for this, and initially I thought they said the tablet would be x86, thus delaying an aarch64 port. I know they're aware that many PineTab users are interested in running/trying the OS on the Tab. i wonder if this change in hardware will put that closer to a reality now.
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#7
(07-28-2021, 06:43 AM)barray Wrote: ARM laptops that run Linux? Tonnes now. People have been quite successful at loading Linux onto Chromebooks for example.

But we're talking here about Linux on bare metal. No Crostini/Crouton.

With fairly recent specs I know only Lenovo Yoga C630 and Flex 5G. And even when you do run Linux on them you will likely have no wifi, touchscreen etc.
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#8
(07-28-2021, 01:09 AM)as400 Wrote: This product seems great. Also the UI of the OS looks very good.
Although the specs on the product page are wrong. It's actually 2 x A75 plus 6 x A55.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rq6TE2nZz3M

I've been burned by far less ambitious Linux device projects. So I'm not going to back it until a) the backers start receiving devices and post their own reviews (though if those reviews are all thoroughly positive I'll remain skeptical) and b) I hear the news that the device is supported by the mainline kernel, so I can pick and chose who gets my data instead of being stuck with Chinese communist spyware. That is assuming it uses something like a typical u-boot that I can replace myself, and not some permanent firmware that can take over in hypervisor mode.
This message was created with 100% recycled electrons
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#9
(07-28-2021, 06:47 AM)tophneal Wrote: I'm a little surprised. I've been following development on the OS for this, and initially I thought they said the tablet would be x86, thus delaying an aarch64 port. I know they're aware that many PineTab users are interested in running/trying the OS on the Tab. i wonder if this change in hardware will put that closer to a reality now.

My impression was that it is already running on x86 and now they want to test on ARM devices. I'm not entirely sure how difficult it really is to port a window manager based on Ubuntu over, it should be relatively easy?

(07-28-2021, 12:57 PM)moonwalkers Wrote: I've been burned by far less ambitious Linux device projects. So I'm not going to back it until a) the backers start receiving devices and post their own reviews (though if those reviews are all thoroughly positive I'll remain skeptical)

Yeah, I've seen a lot of hype around a product very few people have seen yet. I checked out some of the other reviews on the YT channel and they generally seem to be in good spirit, so I'm willing to give the benefit of doubt about this guys integrity: https://www.youtube.com/c/TechHutHD/videos The poor dude has been grifting hard for just 50k subscribers.

(07-28-2021, 12:57 PM)moonwalkers Wrote: and b) I hear the news that the device is supported by the mainline kernel, so I can pick and chose who gets my data instead of being stuck with Chinese communist spyware. That is assuming it uses something like a typical u-boot that I can replace myself, and not some permanent firmware that can take over in hypervisor mode.

I obviously want to avoid politics, but a closed-source market place is for sure a problem. The number of apps they have ported to their OS is also pretty low, so I hope in any case it's possible to pull normal packages from the Ubuntu repositories.
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#10
(07-28-2021, 12:57 PM)moonwalkers Wrote: b) I hear the news that the device is supported by the mainline kernel, so I can pick and chose who gets my data instead of being stuck with Chinese communist spyware. That is assuming it uses something like a typical u-boot that I can replace myself, and not some permanent firmware that can take over in hypervisor mode.

Well, if I did my detective work properly, JingOS team uses BSP kernel (4.14.133-something). And probably also BSP u-boot. Which is not good.

They say, they have also Vulkan working and it is still in works. That would suggest that they are working on it. Not Unisoc. Maybe they will mainline the driver. Who knows.

As to the hardware from China - almost everything nowadays is from China Smile Pinebook Pro, Pinetab and Pinephone too Smile
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