Discussion of Moving Production Outside of China

[dgdimick]

Well, I'll assume you mean the experimental vaccines for covid, not the successor to the PDP.

In that case, I'm sure it's not every country.  Most "third world" countries seem to be oblivious to the covid scares, at least from what I've heard from people living in them.

Sorry, typo, I MENT to say VAT, not VAX.

It's been fixed, as well as I posted an apology in the off chance someone was offended by my typo.

Thanks for pointing this out to me.

[KNERD]

The issue I see with a NATO country, and probably every country, is the VAT nonsense, however, being in the US, I could be off in left field due to only a basic understanding of the issue.

The raspberry Pi is made in the UK and they are doing well for a only $35 USD (plus any taxes) device for years now.
Maybe Pine64 can use the same factory? Isn't it owned by Samsung, or Sony?

[lot378]

Moving production outside of China would end Pine64 as a company pretty quickly.

Production costs would go up, supply chain exponentially more difficult and almost impossible to realise, automation more difficult. Pine64 would have to restrict what it produced to a tiny number of products that would all be a magnitude or two more expensive to produce than they are now losing innovative versatility in the process. Eventually, competition with China would kill production from any Pine64 manufacturing setup based outside China and this is the reality.

Manufacturing outside of China is in decline for the same reasons as it is not as effective on multiple levels as manufacturing within China.

Raspberry Pi production in the UK is an exception but natural as it was designed there and may not have happened without help from Sony. Note the foundation still has production in China also in Japan, not just in Wales. No they would not agree to build Pine64 products because they are competitors.

[KNERD]

.

Manufacturing outside of China is in decline for the same reasons as it is not as effective on multiple levels as manufacturing within China.

On the decline? I see manufacturing outside China going UP. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company manufactures a lot of products for the big companies. I have recently seen more electronics items made in places like Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia , Indonesia. I think the pandemic is what really started a move out of China after seeing the response from the Chinese government.

Also, here is a decent article from 2019 on companies moving manufacturing out of China.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/a-manufa...r-fiction/

So it can be done

[moonwalkers]

you can't trust the usa because of NSA spying and stealing. tbh, you can't trust anyone. not even yourself! put your code out and let everyone see all your flaws! only open source can be trusted.

First, I don't have problem with NSA spying per se - SIGINT is one of the purposes for which the organization was founded. I do have problem with NSA spying and collecting bulk metadata specifically on USA citizens.

Second, open source or not, manufactured in USA or abroad - agencies like NSA will still try to find a way to get the intelligence they believe they need.

Third, modern big data collected by all the corporations and being sold left and right is arguably just as big if not a bigger concern than NSA or the likes, because unlike US federal government that's fundamentally limited by the US Bill of Rights, the same restrictions don't apply to private citizens and even corporations in the same way. Heck, even the state governments in USA are limited by the Bill of Rights only via 14th amendment's Privileges or Immunities Clause and not directly.

Last but most importantly, my post wasn't about spying, it was about willing to pay more to avoid financing those, who on purpose make bunch of people miserable (if alive at all) just because they don't fit their twisted ideology. I don't want my money to go to a government that persecutes people for deciding to quit smoking, like communists in China do to Uyghurs.

P.S.: don't get too hung up on USA - like I said, I see it as ideal (I'd prefer my money to stay as close to my community as possible), but I'd be OK with manufacturing somewhere in Europe, or Mexico, or Brazil. Heck, I'd be OK with manufacturing in Taiwan or even somewhere in Africa, so long as it's not a communist or theocratic (same inhumane shit, different religion) regime or some other regime that likes to start wars or violate human rights (e.g. Russia is squarely on my shit-list).

[dgdimick]

I'm all for moving production outside of China, and I'm willing to pay much more to support manufacturing in, ideally, USA or at least one of the NATO countries. Being born in USSR I know too well the true nature of communist governments, and I would prefer if my money didn't finance them.

you can't trust the usa because of NSA spying and stealing. tbh, you can't trust anyone. not even yourself! put your code out and let everyone see all your flaws! only open source can be trusted.

You do realize that the US Navy contributed code to the TOR project right?

Just having open source doesn't make it "clean" code.

[lot378]

Manufacturing outside of China is in decline for the same reasons as it is not as effective on multiple levels as manufacturing within China.

On the decline? I see manufacturing outside China going UP. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company manufactures a lot of products for the big companies. I have recently seen more electronics items made in places like Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia , Indonesia. I think the pandemic is what really started a move out of China after seeing the response from the Chinese government.

Also, here is a decent article from 2019 on companies moving manufacturing out of China.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/a-manufa...r-fiction/

So it can be done

While manufacturing has increased in some of China's neighbours, China's manufacturing still has continued growth and remains globally competitive. Some change then in the global supply chain but nothing to get excited over. In terms of scale China's manufacturing output is like Everest compared to neighbours even including Japan. Former manufacturing powerhouses like Germany, USA, Japan, Korea are all still in decline with diminishing shares of global manufactured exports.

The China exodus and decline is all a myth.

Pine64 and the community of board tinkerers are best served by the tight supply chain within China and that will remain unchanged forever.

[KNERD]

Manufacturing outside of China is in decline for the same reasons as it is not as effective on multiple levels as manufacturing within China.

On the decline? I see manufacturing outside China going UP. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company manufactures a lot of products for the big companies. I have recently seen more electronics items made in places like Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia , Indonesia. I think the pandemic is what really started a move out of China after seeing the response from the Chinese government.

Also, here is a decent article from 2019 on companies moving manufacturing out of China.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/a-manufa...r-fiction/

So it can be done

The China exodus and decline is all a myth.

You keep telling yourself that. With all the political situations coming out of China, many companies are changing where they have things manufactured, or get raw materials from.

[dgdimick]

Manufacturing outside of China is in decline for the same reasons as it is not as effective on multiple levels as manufacturing within China.

On the decline? I see manufacturing outside China going UP. Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company manufactures a lot of products for the big companies. I have recently seen more electronics items made in places like Vietnam, Philippines, Malaysia , Indonesia. I think the pandemic is what really started a move out of China after seeing the response from the Chinese government.

Also, here is a decent article from 2019 on companies moving manufacturing out of China.

https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/a-manufa...r-fiction/

So it can be done

The China exodus and decline is all a myth.

You keep telling yourself that. With all the political situations coming out of China, many companies are changing where they have things manufactured, or get raw materials from.

There's a lot of people that are not following the news very closely, and still think China is "on top". China's in for some hard times in the next few years, and it will be interesting what actions they take to try and keep the CCP in power.
Leaking the Wahun Virus, taking over Hong Kong, the actions of their fishing fleets, seizing the sea areas they have, and the human rights violations coming out are not going to sit very well with the rest of the free world.

[KNERD]

There's a lot of people that are not following the news very closely, and still think China is "on top". China's in for some hard times in the next few years, and it will be interesting what actions they take to try and keep the CCP in power.
Leaking the Wahun Virus, taking over Hong Kong, the actions of their fishing fleets, seizing the sea areas they have, and the human rights violations coming out are not going to sit very well with the rest of the free world.

Let's not forget spyware built right in to electronics equipment