Yeah, The PMOS Community Edition just "works" out of the box !
I have put a cheap TracFone sim in one of mine and it has cellular data besides fully functioning phone and text.
Strange, first couple of calls had problems with the audio and ringtone, but after a few reboots and calls it seems ok now.
I have a second PMOS Community Edition running Mobian September 03 nightly with great ''Out of the Box" results as well.
LINUX = CHOICES
**BCnAZ**
Donate to $upport
your favorite OS Team
I don't use many Android apps; Mobian for the PinePhone is already suitable to be my daily driver... battery life notwithstanding.
One thing I have noticed with the PMOS Community Edition is greatly improved sound output.
I have a Brave Heart phone with Mobian on it, I can barely hear the 'test' sound on it, while the same Mobian on the new PMOS is easy to hear.
... maybe a hardware change there ?
LINUX = CHOICES
**BCnAZ**
Donate to $upport
your favorite OS Team
(09-04-2020, 07:16 AM)amosbatto Wrote: It seems to me that you aren't taking much of a risk if you order now. You can try it out, and if it doesn't have enough functionality for you to enjoy playing with it, then put it in a drawer and try it again in 3, 6, 12, 18 months as the software gets better and better. At this point, I think they have fixed all the critical hardware bugs, that would prevent you from using the phone. Maybe wait for the Manjaro version just to make sure, but at this point, most everything is going to be fixed in software, so you might as well order now.
The PinePhone is cheap enough that even if it doesn't work out as your daily phone, you can use it as a neat mini-computer or a handheld web browser or a toy for tinkering or simply an excuse for learning Linux better. It is very cheap entertainment. This is great advice. Thank you very much.
09-05-2020, 09:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-05-2020, 10:29 PM by SinOjos.)
Besides the gui, learning the cli will really open up the Linux world to you.
Alpine Linux was originally Gentoo Linux, reduced to bare necessities. Initially Gentoo was necessary to build and grow Alpine. Alpine is now a standalone and does not need Gentoo. But Alpine is still very much like Gentoo, but a binary release rather than a compiled release like Gentoo. There is also Funtoo by the original founder of Gentoo which is a more bleeding edge release where some things filter down into Gentoo.
Both Gentoo & Alpine use OpenRC as the init system. Us old timers do not care for SystemD which is used on almost all other Linux Flavors. There are many reasons for that, but this is not the place to go into that. There are long standing threads in the Gentoo forums that will enlighten you as to why you do not want to use SystemD. It is essentially an OS in itself, for which you have no control over, they can run anything without your knowledge. For the most part transforms Linux into Windows in my opinion. I have been at the CLI since 1981 and using Linux since 1995. Don't get me started on the evilness SystemD. : )
Gentoo & Alpine Linux are the only two OS's I run. You can do anything and everything with those two. No need for anything else.
https://www.gentoo.org/
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Main_Page
https://www.funtoo.org/Welcome
https://alpinelinux.org/
https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Main_Page
The key to really controlling PostMarketOS is Alpine the real underlying OS. The Alpine wiki will be of great help. You need to learn to use the CLI (command line interface).
What I do, instead of connecting a keyboard to the phone for access to the CLI. Is use SSH. In Linux for accessing multiple servers/computers via ssh using screen or tmux is the best way. I prefer tmux combined with tmuxifier.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Tmux
https://github.com/jimeh/tmuxifier
Tmux allows you to in one terminal log into as many servers/computers you want, kind of like tabs, but better for working at the CLI. Simple key press to change from on to the other. Start a session then add as many panes as you want. Tmuxifier allows you to build configuration files to start out with as many windows and or panes and have automatic login. In other words, when I start my root tmux, it automatically logs into 10 different computers. My workstation, 6 servers, 2 laptops, and 1 pinephone. Which is my current development cluster. I have a different configuration for my Amazon AWS Linux VPS content delivery cluster.
Since my content delivery cluster runs the same OS on all servers. I use tmux-xpanes which allows me to login to many servers in one window. I have 9 servers so I end up with 3 across & 3 down in one window. Each command is mimicked in each pane. For updating I type in the update command once, it is mimicked on every server. Makes handling multiple servers a lot easier. Other wise you will have to login to each server individually. That is the great thing about Linux, multi tasking, that people coming from windblows have trouble with. If your not Multi-Tasking with Linux you are not using it's full potential.
I run xfce with 9 work-spaces, with cursor edge wrap which allows me to move to any of the 9 by simply moving the cursor to the edge of the screen. I will have various browsers and gui apps in the top & bottom 3 across. With the 3 middle workspaces running a terminal with tmux/tmuxifier. I can quickly move to any server in a fraction of a second, with each terminal being logged into 9-12 servers/computers. The best way I have found to work on 3 x 9 = 27 servers or unlimited number of servers and have quick access to any one of them with a quick move of the cursor and a key press.
Since xfce allows you to run 1 or many workspaces, my 9 workspaces is but a start. You could run a 10x10 then with 9 tmux windows in each terminal you could be logged into 900 servers and have to do no more than a quick move of the cursor then key press the window number you want in tmux to have nearly instant access to one of 900 servers. That is with one login to each window. Each window can also have numerous panes, if you did a 3x3 for 9 panes per window, you could have access to 8,100 servers at one time with quick access to any one. If you were to use xpanes you could enter a command once and send it to every server at the same time. Of course that is an extreme example, there are better ways for such a big number. The only limitation to Linux is your imagination.
The only other window manager I run is DWM which you can switch from on workstation to another with a key press rather than cursor edge wrap like xfce. Both have a small suite of apps. I use xfce for my workstation, dwm for monitoring servers that I have gui monitoring stuff running like htop, Zabbix or Kismet wireless IDS.
https://github.com/greymd/tmux-xpanes
https://www.xfce.org/
https://dwm.suckless.org/
https://www.zabbix.com/
https://www.kismetwireless.net/
As you learn more about Linux you will be able to better understand how Linux works. LFS Linux From Scratch is the best way to learn. LFS is only instructions, there is not package manager. You will learn about setting Flags that are specific for your cpu and flags for the packages/apps you will compile and install. Gentoo is basically LFS on steroids. Gentoo has a package management system that greatly simplifies setting cpu flags, individual packages/app flags.
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
By using the correct flags better performance can be had for your specific cpu. While the package/app flags, allow you to only install what is needed, or specifically tailor to your intended use. Which can possibly improve performance, reduce bloat, reduce or eliminate bugs, reduce attack surface. Binary Linux Distros/Flavors turn everything on usually, some times not. But you generally get it all whether you need it or not. Since the intended use is with any cpu of a specific architecture, everything may have or may have not been compiled with the best GCC Optimization.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GCC_optimization
The nice thing with Gentoo, the reason why Alpine started as Gentoo, Google ChromeOS is Gentoo and why universities, hosting providers, NASA, etc. uses Gentoo. Is because you have more control and a better out of the box setup and package management system for development than any other Linux OS. I would not be surprised if Tesla & SpaceX use Gentoo, as everything they do is Linux.
Linux is great for building custom Linux OS's. Below is a link to my write up on the Gentoo Wiki on how to cross compile in a distcc network cluster for the Banana Pi. Which is an Arm single board. The instructions can be used to build a development environment for the PinePhone. Simply build for the CPU and or architecture your PinePhone is using.
Since compiling on Arm cpu's is slow, especially Browsers which can take 2-3 days to complete. It allows you to use any number of computers/servers to compile for the desired cpu architecture on faster computers/servers running different cpu architectures.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Banana_Pi_the_Gentoo_Way
When the first Arm single boards came out, Rasberry Pi and such. I did a lot with getting Gentoo working on the various Arm boards. I have not been doing much the past number of years with cross compiling for Arm boards. But with the advent of the PinePhone, looks like I might be getting back into it.
Rather than setting up a typical cross compiling with distcc on faster servers. I am looking at the Pine Cluster Board. With 7 slots, the modules run the same cpu as the PinePhone, using distcc, distributed compiling to all 7 modules, packages/apps will compile much faster than on 1. No need to do a cross compiling setup.
https://store.pine64.org/product/cluster...ule-slots/
Since Gentoo is built to do stuff like that out of the box. Building a custom OS for the PinePhone would become a trivial matter using Gentoo with the ClusterBoard. Think I am going to have to order one. That way you can build your OS anyway you want, then install any of the available desktops/user-interfaces.
That kind of setup would be optimum for desktop/user-interface development. No need to setup a cross compiling scenario with different architectures, which can be a bit finicky at times.
(09-05-2020, 09:40 PM)SinOjos Wrote: Besides the gui, learning the cli will really open up the Linux world to you.
Alpine Linux was originally Gentoo Linux, reduced to bare necessities. Initially Gentoo was necessary to build and grow Alpine. Alpine is now a standalone and does not need Gentoo. But Alpine is still very much like Gentoo, but a binary release rather than a compiled release like Gentoo. There is also Funtoo by the original founder of Gentoo which is a more bleeding edge release where some things filter down into Gentoo.
Both Gentoo & Alpine use OpenRC as the init system. Us old timers do not care for SystemD which is used on almost all other Linux Flavors. There are many reasons for that, but this is not the place to go into that. There are long standing threads in the Gentoo forums that will enlighten you as to why you do not want to use SystemD. It is essentially an OS in itself, for which you have no control over, they can run anything without your knowledge. For the most part transforms Linux into Windows in my opinion. I have been at the CLI since 1981 and using Linux since 1995. Don't get me started on the evilness SystemD. : )
Gentoo & Alpine Linux are the only two OS's I run. You can do anything and everything with those two. No need for anything else.
https://www.gentoo.org/
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Main_Page
https://www.funtoo.org/Welcome
https://alpinelinux.org/
https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Main_Page
The key to really controlling PostMarketOS is Alpine the real underlying OS. The Alpine wiki will be of great help. You need to learn to use the CLI (command line interface).
What I do, instead of connecting a keyboard to the phone for access to the CLI. Is use SSH. In Linux for accessing multiple servers/computers via ssh using screen or tmux is the best way. I prefer tmux combined with tmuxifier.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Tmux
https://github.com/jimeh/tmuxifier
Tmux allows you to in one terminal log into as many servers/computers you want, kind of like tabs, but better for working at the CLI. Simple key press to change from on to the other. Start a session then add as many panes as you want. Tmuxifier allows you to build configuration files to start out with as many windows and or panes and have automatic login. In other words, when I start my root tmux, it automatically logs into 10 different computers. My workstation, 6 servers, 2 laptops, and 1 pinephone. Which is my current development cluster. I have a different configuration for my Amazon AWS Linux VPS content delivery cluster.
Since my content delivery cluster runs the same OS on all servers. I use tmux-xpanes which allows me to login to many servers in one window. I have 9 servers so I end up with 3 across & 3 down in one window. Each command is mimicked in each pane. For updating I type in the update command once, it is mimicked on every server. Makes handling multiple servers a lot easier. Other wise you will have to login to each server individually. That is the great thing about Linux, multi tasking, that people coming from windblows have trouble with. If your not Multi-Tasking with Linux you are not using it's full potential.
I run xfce with 9 work-spaces, with cursor edge wrap which allows me to move to any of the 9 by simply moving the cursor to the edge of the screen. I will have various browsers and gui apps in the top & bottom 3 across. With the 3 middle workspaces running a terminal with tmux/tmuxifier. I can quickly move to any server in a fraction of a second, with each terminal being logged into 9-12 servers/computers. The best way I have found to work on 3 x 9 = 27 servers or unlimited number of servers and have quick access to any one of them with a quick move of the cursor and a key press.
Since xfce allows you to run 1 or many workspaces, my 9 workspaces is but a start. You could run a 10x10 then with 9 tmux windows in each terminal you could be logged into 900 servers and have to do no more than a quick move of the cursor then key press the window number you want in tmux to have nearly instant access to one of 900 servers. That is with one login to each window. Each window can also have numerous panes, if you did a 3x3 for 9 panes per window, you could have access to 8,100 servers at one time with quick access to any one. If you were to use xpanes you could enter a command once and send it to every server at the same time. Of course that is an extreme example, there are better ways for such a big number. The only limitation to Linux is your imagination.
The only other window manager I run is DWM which you can switch from on workstation to another with a key press rather than cursor edge wrap like xfce. Both have a small suite of apps. I use xfce for my workstation, dwm for monitoring servers that I have gui monitoring stuff running like htop, Zabbix or Kismet wireless IDS.
https://github.com/greymd/tmux-xpanes
https://www.xfce.org/
https://dwm.suckless.org/
https://www.zabbix.com/
https://www.kismetwireless.net/
As you learn more about Linux you will be able to better understand how Linux works. LFS Linux From Scratch is the best way to learn. LFS is only instructions, there is not package manager. You will learn about setting Flags that are specific for your cpu and flags for the packages/apps you will compile and install. Gentoo is basically LFS on steroids. Gentoo has a package management system that greatly simplifies setting cpu flags, individual packages/app flags.
http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
By using the correct flags better performance can be had for your specific cpu. While the package/app flags, allow you to only install what is needed, or specifically tailor to your intended use. Which can possibly improve performance, reduce bloat, reduce or eliminate bugs, reduce attack surface. Binary Linux Distros/Flavors turn everything on usually, some times not. But you generally get it all whether you need it or not. Since the intended use is with any cpu of a specific architecture, everything may have or may have not been compiled with the best GCC Optimization.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GCC_optimization
The nice thing with Gentoo, the reason why Alpine started as Gentoo, Google ChromeOS is Gentoo and why universities, hosting providers, NASA, etc. uses Gentoo. Is because you have more control and a better out of the box setup and package management system for development than any other Linux OS. I would not be surprised if Tesla & SpaceX use Gentoo, as everything they do is Linux.
Linux is great for building custom Linux OS's. Below is a link to my write up on the Gentoo Wiki on how to cross compile in a distcc network cluster for the Banana Pi. Which is an Arm single board. The instructions can be used to build a development environment for the PinePhone. Simply build for the CPU and or architecture your PinePhone is using.
Since compiling on Arm cpu's is slow, especially Browsers which can take 2-3 days to complete. It allows you to use any number of computers/servers to compile for the desired cpu architecture on faster computers/servers running different cpu architectures.
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Banana_Pi_the_Gentoo_Way
When the first Arm single boards came out, Rasberry Pi and such. I did a lot with getting Gentoo working on the various Arm boards. I have not been doing much the past number of years with cross compiling for Arm boards. But with the advent of the PinePhone, looks like I might be getting back into it.
Rather than setting up a typical cross compiling with distcc on faster servers. I am looking at the Pine Cluster Board. With 7 slots, the modules run the same cpu as the PinePhone, using distcc, distributed compiling to all 7 modules, packages/apps will compile much faster than on 1. No need to do a cross compiling setup.
https://store.pine64.org/product/cluster...ule-slots/
Since Gentoo is built to do stuff like that out of the box. Building a custom OS for the PinePhone would become a trivial matter using Gentoo with the ClusterBoard. Think I am going to have to order one. That way you can build your OS anyway you want, then install any of the available desktops/user-interfaces.
That kind of setup would be optimum for desktop/user-interface development. No need to setup a cross compiling scenario with different architectures, which can be a bit finicky at times. That's amazing. Thank you for all that wonderful information. That gives me something to aspire to.
09-06-2020, 01:28 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-06-2020, 01:39 PM by SinOjos.)
Your welcome. There is a number of us old farts that frequent the Gentoo forums. I am not there to often, but there are some regulars like NeddySeagoon that really know something.
It takes time to learn, but for those that have the personal drive to learn, there is more to learn than you can learn in one lifetime.
The biggest problem with Linux I have seen over the years. Is that the propriety software developers, m$, apple, adobe, intel, the four biggest infringers. Have for over 20 years done everything they can to keep people away from Linux. Compromising education institutions, bullying computer assemblers. Dell, Compaq, and others filed complaints with the US Federal Attorney General, providing emails, letters, and other evidence. When the first Amd64 bit desktop processors came out, m$ & intel were still more than a year from having 64 bit capability. They stopped Linux & Amd from putting their 64 bit systems on the shelves. I had a 64 bit system long before m$ & intel did. That is why in Linux when they refer to 64 bit, it is Amd64, because AMD did it first.
The US Gov. has all the facts, but have sat on it. The Clinton administration convicted m$ in the 1990's for crimes, the Bush administration made the sanctions go away. Starting early 2000 Gentoo and other Linux flavors were outright attacked by people most probably paid by m$. The forums were full of disruptive posting that seemingly appeared to be very informative correct information. But was actually used to incite fear & steer people away from Linux. Websites running m$ asp for their website, would not load in a Linux browser. Causing people who tried Linux, to go back to m$ because one of their favorite websites did not work with Linux.
They are big advertising spenders. Therefore they have been able to keep Linux articles to a minimum in the typical normal media, stop it's mention in US education. I returned to College in 2012, the intro computer course textbook, was history rewritten. I was taking a Linux class taught by a guy that was retired from Bell Labs, had been on the team that wrote the C language back in the 1960's. He is why I took the class, but had to take the intro computer class to get into his class.
The intro computer class did not have one mention of Linux or RiscOS, only m$, apple, intel, adobe. Even though the whole internet ran on Linux, and RiscOS did desktop GUI stuff before anyone else. Every desktop after RiscOS has stuff/ideas that was originated by the RiscOS team. Which were the same people that designed the original Arm processor, they needed an OS for their processor. Not one mention in any textbook. I knew about it because I was alive and using computers back then. I asked the professor about it, she refused to answer. I think she was intimidated as I knew more than she did, all she knew was which button to push with the propriety software she was selling to the students. I feel real bad for students nowadays, they are being mislead about the history of computers. They are being used as revenue producers rather than students there to learn.
Despite the whole internet, every small device, every router, every switch, every automobile, 500 of the top 500 super computers run Linux. Not one mention of Linux.
https://www.riscosopen.org/content/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_OS
There was a time years ago, was 1 then 2 then 3, super computers that ran windows, now there is none. Check out the statistics page.
https://www.top500.org/
There is the SCO scandal. m$ got busted paying other companies to pursue litigation against Linux. Not only did they litigate Linux software developers, but corporations that used Linux.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_Group
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO%E2%80%...x_disputes
Someone new to Linux has no idea were to start, or where to look. So I try to spread the good word.
When I do read something in the media about Linux, it is usually some scary security bug, that in actuality is not nearly as bad as they make it sound. Not a peep about the 1,00's if not 1,000's of m$ serious security bugs. The lists of which is the best Linux, rarely have Gentoo or Slackware in the list. Even though Slackware is one of the very oldest. They never mention any compiled flavor or any without SystemD. They never mention the daily updates Linux gets, unlike the once a month m$. Which system do you think is more secure, the one getting once a month updates, or the one getting daily updates. It is all a real shame.
It is up to those of us that actually know something about Linux to spread the word. In the hope that the free thinkers will break away from the followers. The truth is out there, but you are going to have to put in some work to find it, as it is overrun by the paid for drivel.
Well, I'm definitely here to learn, so this is a great education. I appreciate that there are people out there helping the newbies like me get their footing.
Thank you again.
Friendly forums really do help, I remember many years ago a very nice person on the Mephis
website helped me a lot for days with multiple questions when I installed Mephis.
This month is my one year anniversary here on the Pine forum, I may never be a developer,
but I have become a better Linux user.
I have one ISO Pinebook Pro, one ANSI Pinebook Pro, one Brave Heart Edition phone
two PMOS C.E. Convergent Pkg phones, one PMOS C.E. phone.
and made $ contributions to developers, so I am helping advance Linux as well.
You do not need to be a certified developer to use a Pinephone.
(Although that may help)
LINUX = CHOICES
**BCnAZ**
Donate to $upport
your favorite OS Team
(08-31-2020, 11:11 AM)firefox-58 Wrote: ATM I can only make and receive calls with UB-Touch. Phosh fails and also do plasma mobile. With different flavours, but BOTH are not possible to make reliable in- and outgoing calls. Sorry if this make me sound dense, but are you paying for a carrier to make that call?
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