Basic questions of somebody new to pine64

[NotAPowerUser]

Hello, I hope you all are having a nice day.

I am very new to Pine64 and interested in the PinePhone and PineTab.
Also I do not really have a clue of Linux, so I will probably ask quite some stupid questions. I hope that's okay.

But for now just two questions about Pine64 hardware in general and one about operating systems (this one is probably a bit embarrassing).

A big reason why I am looking at the pine devices is that I really don't like the way most phones and tablets do not get (os/security) updates after 2-3 years anymore (the other reason is privacy).
I don't really understand why it is that way for phones but not for pc's, which also support a variety of hardware. I always read something about drivers and chip producers not providing patches or something along those lines.
So how about the pine hardware in that regard? Is it that open source that as long as the community supports it, it will be updated?

How about repairs? I think I read somewhere that some things are screwed that would usually be glued - for repairability. As the hardware is mostly for tinkerers I reckon it is much easier to repair than other phones/tablets ? Is it possible to have it repaired by Pine64 if i don't have the skills to do it? Obviously the devices are not very expensive but I really dont like the idea of throwing away a device because of minor issues.

Are the Linux versions available for the PinePhone and PineTab "the same" as the desktop variants? What I mean by this is: If i get a certain distribution running on a device, will it be able to run all applications that would run on a desktop (from a compatibility, not a performance point of view of course).

I really hope you guys don't mind helping out someone who very much is not a power user. ^^
Thanks to anyone answering my questions.

[kqlnut]

Hello, I hope you all are having a nice day.

I am very new to Pine64 and interested in the PinePhone and PineTab.
Also I do not really have a clue of Linux, so I will probably ask quite some stupid questions. I hope that's okay.

But for now just two questions about Pine64 hardware in general and one about operating systems (this one is probably a bit embarrassing).

A big reason why I am looking at the pine devices is that I really don't like the way most phones and tablets do not get (os/security) updates after 2-3 years anymore (the other reason is privacy).
I don't really understand why it is that way for phones but not for pc's, which also support a variety of hardware. I always read something about drivers and chip producers not providing patches or something along those lines.
So how about the pine hardware in that regard? Is it that open source that as long as the community supports it, it will be updated?

How about repairs? I think I read somewhere that some things are screwed that would usually be glued - for repairability. As the hardware is mostly for tinkerers I reckon it is much easier to repair than other phones/tablets ? Is it possible to have it repaired by Pine64 if i don't have the skills to do it? Obviously the devices are not very expensive but I really dont like the idea of throwing away a device because of minor issues.

Are the Linux versions available for the PinePhone and PineTab "the same" as the desktop variants? What I mean by this is: If i get a certain distribution running on a device, will it be able to run all applications that would run on a desktop (from a compatibility, not a performance point of view of course).

I really hope you guys don't mind helping out someone who very much is not a power user. ^^
Thanks to anyone answering my questions.

Welcome! Don't be embarassed to ask questions, only way to learn.
What makes the PinePhone special compared to most other phones that can run some sort of Linux is that it runs the mainline kernel. So you can use the newest kernel available and it will work (as far as people make it work). You are not dependent on hardware vendors patching the kernel with proprietary drivers and firmwares to make their devices work (which they won't for a long time which is why you stop receiving security updates). So as long as people keep working on it, the PinePhone doesn't have that problem. Also you will also always be able to work on it yourself. However not everything in the phone is completely open source, but I think this is only true for part of the modem (maybe something else, but I'm not sure).

You will also be able to repair it yourself quite easily and you will have to also because Pine64 has no support for those kind of things. But don't be scared of it, it's really not hard to swap out parts if you follow the available tutorials.

The Linux distributions for the phones are basically the same as for the desktop, i. e. they share their repositories. You won't be able to run the standard desktop environments without problems though, that's why new ones adapted for phones are being developed (most notably Phosh and Plasma, but there are more very interesting ones). But a big difference to desktop machines is that the phone's (and most portable devices') procesor has ARM architecture unlike most desktop machines x86_64 architecture. Apps have to be compiled for a specific architecture, so packages are not interchangable and not always available for every architecture. If you just use the available repositories, you don't have to care about this yourself, but just be aware that not everything will be available as on other Linux machines (e. g. Signal - they don't support the ARM architecture for their Linux client officially, so you would have to rely on an unofficial client like Axolotl which is far from perfect).

If you are willing to learn about Linux and want to make a step towards a future smartphone alternative to Apple and Android, go for it! But the biggest drawback that you really have to think about if you can accept it is, that things are still far from the functionality regular users would expect of a smartphone today. The community is great and development really makes fast progress, but it's just not the plug and play mentality especially smartphone users are used to. Even basic functionality like calls and SMS cannot be expected to work reliably all the time. You have to learn about that stuff and have to get to know your ways around it. I for myself use my PinePhone as my daily driver, it works for me and I really like the aspect of being able to know about everything that's going on, get into fixing things and learning new things along the way all the time. But I also don't have high expectations and have never really relied on any apps. The PinePhone is time consuming and not exactly a device to make your life easier at this point if you just want something that works. But I find it very rewarding and have never regretted a single bit getting into this world.

[tophneal]

Most software for Pine devices are open source. What isn't is often actively worked toward making open source or replacing with open source alternative by the community.

Pine devices are pretty easily repair by the consumer, and often times the community will make and post teardowns to the respective devices wiki pages. Pine, however, does not offer repair services. Don't let this discourage you, though, as it's likely you could still have a device repair shop do they work for you, if you're confident you can do it yourself.

Yes and No. The phone and tablet variants of distros run the same underlying OS as desktops, but there are tweaks/packages/etc specific to the device(s), like the GUI, to make the OS useable on the device(s). Most software will run (as long as it is aarch64/arm64 compatible) you may occasionally experience scaling issues with the GUI of the software, but a lot of apps scale pretty well to the different screen sizes..

[NotAPowerUser]

Thanks a lot you two!

[NotAPowerUser]

Signal not being available on ARM is quite a bummer to be honest.
How do i find out if an app supports the ARM architecture?

[tophneal]

Usually you can find out by looking up the package/app you want to install

[RTP]

Signal not being available on ARM is quite a bummer to be honest.
How do i find out if an app supports the ARM architecture?

There is some work on a Signal Desktop Builder for Mobian found here:
https://github.com/0mniteck/Signal-Desktop-Builder

Note: I have not tried it out but saw it mentioned in this thread: https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?...al+desktop


Axolotl works quite well (when it works ). And we are currently waiting on a protocol update (in Axolotl) to fix the current state (Signal servers changed something causing failure).

Axolotl Signal clone was the real "line" crossing the Pinephone into "daily driver possible" for me.

As for hardware repair, much easier than other less documented/glued shut devices. Having an active/open community behind you, sharing support.

Still Pinephone is seen to many as a 'sacrifice' (in this immediate gratification smartphone addicted world).

Battery life on Pinephone is not comparible to iPhone/Android (keyboard + 6,000 mAh battery should assist this), although Pinetab battery life is very nice IMO (still no production of Pinetab at this time due to parts shortage/pricing. You can find Pinetab for sale if you keep your eyes open.

Another interesting product Pinenote is coming out as well.

Software on Pinephone/Pinetab can run equally as well, and share same basis for hardware. Screen difference can make for some adjustments. You can run most programs you enjoy from Linux desktop.

[Posted from my Pinetab]

[bcnaz]

Hello, I hope you all are having a nice day.

I am very new to Pine64 and interested in the PinePhone and PineTab.
Also I do not really have a clue of Linux, so I will probably ask quite some stupid questions. I hope that's okay.

But for now just two questions about Pine64 hardware in general and one about operating systems (this one is probably a bit embarrassing).

A big reason why I am looking at the pine devices is that I really don't like the way most phones and tablets do not get (os/security) updates after 2-3 years anymore (the other reason is privacy).
I don't really understand why it is that way for phones but not for pc's, which also support a variety of hardware. I always read something about drivers and chip producers not providing patches or something along those lines.
So how about the pine hardware in that regard? Is it that open source that as long as the community supports it, it will be updated?

How about repairs? I think I read somewhere that some things are screwed that would usually be glued - for repairability. As the hardware is mostly for tinkerers I reckon it is much easier to repair than other phones/tablets ? Is it possible to have it repaired by Pine64 if i don't have the skills to do it? Obviously the devices are not very expensive but I really dont like the idea of throwing away a device because of minor issues.

Are the Linux versions available for the PinePhone and PineTab "the same" as the desktop variants? What I mean by this is: If i get a certain distribution running on a device, will it be able to run all applications that would run on a desktop (from a compatibility, not a performance point of view of course).

I really hope you guys don't mind helping out someone who very much is not a power user. ^^
Thanks to anyone answering my questions.

Welcome !
   I have been using Linux for over twenty years,  though I have had zero training.

I think most or at least many of us here,  do place a bit of importance on our privacy.

My approach is different than most though.

If it breaks,  I usually just start over,  just install fresh software or a new operating system.
If an operating system does not work for you,  just try a different one.

Since the Pine phone runs pretty well from a micro sd card,  and it is pretty painless to download the operating system(s) from the internet,
  ...then just flash that operating system to a micro sd card.
Put the flashed card in your Pine phone and turn it on. 
 If an update or something breaks the system, just repeat those steps.

If you store a lot of data on your phone (or other device) this can be impractical,  ( you could use external devices for storage.)

This can be useful for security,  as far as not having your stored data/information exposed to the internet.

And it reduces down time,  you could spend hours, days, weeks "trying" to repair a broken system.
or simply start fresh, it takes just a minute or two to swap your micro sd card.

The GREAT thing about Linux is that you do have so many choices,    Whatever works for you.

There are at least 3 distributions of operating systems that currently 'work pretty good' just "As Is" out of the box at the moment.
 >  and a lot more systems available that you can use,   if you happen to have some Linux skills.

However,  you will have to exert some effort yourself,  it does require you to keep your eyes open, read the forum, ask questions etc...
  (This can be a good way to get into Linux,   as it is easy to get discouraged if it breaks and you cannot fix it )

*NOTE :  This method may not be suitable for everyone.  but just a starting point for some. *(Especially if you have zero Linux experience)

[NotAPowerUser]

Thanks a lot for all the replies!

As of now I'm thinking of giving the PinePhone more time to develop into something that I can handle. Right now it is called "Beta Edition" and the description states that it is aimed at early adopters. The answers up to this point clearly state that it is not yet a daily driver. Also in the wiki the list of operating systems has a "what works, what does not work" section for each system indicating there is quite some stuff that does not yet work.

However I do not find this kind of warnings (from the shop and wiki) when looking at the PineTab - which raises my interest in it. The PineTab is based on the PineBook - which _is_ labeled not to be a daily driver. From my unterstanding the PineTab and PineBook support the same software.

So what is the current state of the PineTab?
Is it ready to be used by someone without extensive Linux knowledge - and if so, is it reasonable to change the os for someone like that (me) by just following some kind of step by step instruction?
I know the PineTab is not really available right now, but depending on it's state I'm willing to wait until it is back in stock.

I do not quite understand what mainline Linux/kernel is. Could somebody roughly explain it to me? Does the PineTab support this?

[bcnaz]

I believe the Pine Tab is most like the Pine phone, with a bigger screen and no modem.
Though there was talk of offering a do it yourself modem add-on, as an accessory.