(08-27-2019, 03:09 PM)ikhider Wrote: (08-21-2019, 08:12 AM)Arwen Wrote: People are expecting a bit too much for a product not even released. Further,
this is not a user laptop, it's a hobbiest or tinkerer type laptop. It's somewhat
expected that a person can perform a flash drive swap out themselves.
I was re-assured on parts availability because of the parts for current products.
Other than the battery, (which may take time since it's harder to ship), we should
see the Pine Store populate with Pinebook Pro parts as they become available.
In fact, the 128GB eMMC and NVME adapter are already listed.
For me, if the Pinebook Pro works out for available software, reliability, and reasonable
speed, I will likely buy a second as a spare. (Even if I have to upgrade the eMMC.)
"this is not a user laptop, it's a hobbiest or tinkerer type laptop" The point is the waste, to replace a part the second you get it. Also, according the marketing, it is a user laptop, meant to be used for day-to-day tasks. The Pinebook regular is supposed to be of the hobby/tinker variety, the 'pro' is the departure. It is sad that waste is so ingrained in our culture of production that it is not challenged.
This is a product for a hobbyist - there is no such thing as "waste" - surplus items go into the "this'll come in useful one day" bin and definitely not the "throwaway" bin. 
Ahh, I get it. I thought you could do web dev, word processing, light audio editing, music listening, web browsing, graphics work (with inkscape, scribus, gimp) with this laptop, but it is not really meant for that. It is meant more for tinkering to one's desire, not for 'work' per se. Got it. Okay, well I hope Pine64 will put out something where I can do those things. Then hard drive capacity and extra batteries are sort of moot if you are just tinkering.
(09-08-2019, 09:03 PM)ikhider Wrote: Ahh, I get it. I thought you could do web dev, word processing, light audio editing, music listening, web browsing, graphics work (with inkscape, scribus, gimp) with this laptop, but it is not really meant for that. It is meant more for tinkering to one's desire, not for 'work' per se. Got it. Okay, well I hope Pine64 will put out something where I can do those things. Then hard drive capacity and extra batteries are sort of moot if you are just tinkering.
You should be able to do all those things on the Pinebook Pro, they're not that intensive. On the other hand I sometimes edit 4K video, I would not attempt this on the PBP since it needs far more RAM.
There's also the question of reliability. Whenever you tinker with something generally the reliability drops and if you need that tool to earn a living that's a bad thing. I eventually stopped using my oneplus one because I'd done something to the radio firmware and couldn't reset so it had a 50:50 chance of receiving calls when they happened. While I'm going to try using my PBP as a daily driver at work, I'll need to keep my current macbook Pro as backup in case I hit bugs or some task that genuinely needs a lot of RAM.
I have to slowly shake my head.
WTF are people expecting? This is first and foremost a Linux machine. You can customize the OS and remove any slack to make it just as big or small as you need it. 64 GB will be great, if you just keep it sensible. Unless, of course, you're going to cut the next blockbuster movie on it. But then you are basically on the wrong boat anyway.
It is, what it is. A cheap appliance that you can toss around as you like without the fear of losing $$$$$. A tool to learn and improve on your Linux - and that includes different desktop environments and slimming down the system. A tool for things to do you don't want to use your valuable MacBook for.
The original PineBook is a tad too far on the lo-spec side now. There are major webpages that don't load on it due to lack of RAM. The PBP will rectify that.
If you want a workhorse, get yourself a Thinkpad x220 from a refurb, put in max RAM and an SSD and buy some spare batteries. You will be able to put any OS - Linux, WIndows or MacOS - on it and work with it productively. And you will possibly pay less than you will pay for a PBP.
PBP is, what the PineBook should have been in the first place. A tinkering machine. A machine to play around without the fear of losing valuable data, A machine to break and fix. The PineBook was broken in too many ways, lack of RAM, flimsy plastic cases ... but it was a start, a concept that points to the right direction.
I have great hopes for the PBP. Still, it won't replace my MacBook or my Surface, but - like it's ancestor - it will follow me to places that I would not dare to take my MacBook to; and this time it hopefully won't disintegrate like the PineBook did....
(09-09-2019, 02:51 AM)Corkonian Wrote: I have to slowly shake my head.
WTF are people expecting? This is first and foremost a Linux machine. You can customize the OS and remove any slack to make it just as big or small as you need it. 64 GB will be great, if you just keep it sensible. Unless, of course, you're going to cut the next blockbuster movie on it. But then you are basically on the wrong boat anyway.
It is, what it is. A cheap appliance that you can toss around as you like without the fear of losing $$$$$. A tool to learn and improve on your Linux - and that includes different desktop environments and slimming down the system. A tool for things to do you don't want to use your valuable MacBook for.
The original PineBook is a tad too far on the lo-spec side now. There are major webpages that don't load on it due to lack of RAM. The PBP will rectify that.
If you want a workhorse, get yourself a Thinkpad x220 from a refurb, put in max RAM and an SSD and buy some spare batteries. You will be able to put any OS - Linux, WIndows or MacOS - on it and work with it productively. And you will possibly pay less than you will pay for a PBP.
PBP is, what the PineBook should have been in the first place. A tinkering machine. A machine to play around without the fear of losing valuable data, A machine to break and fix. The PineBook was broken in too many ways, lack of RAM, flimsy plastic cases ... but it was a start, a concept that points to the right direction.
I have great hopes for the PBP. Still, it won't replace my MacBook or my Surface, but - like it's ancestor - it will follow me to places that I would not dare to take my MacBook to; and this time it hopefully won't disintegrate like the PineBook did....
Sure, but I did pretty good with a ten year old discarded gateway single core laptop with two gigs of RAM running Enlightenment w/ Slackware and GhostBSD. I got some additional years out of it once I sourced good batteries. The machine was a good little work horse, but one day I had a bad day and the machine did not survive it. No fault of the machine. It was shaky, but mostly held together. I can do a lot with a little. But if the pro is not reliable, then it's pointless. I like supporting underdogs who have the heart in the right place, but I will use the machine to death.
(09-10-2019, 07:54 PM)ikhider Wrote: (09-09-2019, 02:51 AM)Corkonian Wrote: I have to slowly shake my head.
WTF are people expecting? This is first and foremost a Linux machine. You can customize the OS and remove any slack to make it just as big or small as you need it. 64 GB will be great, if you just keep it sensible. Unless, of course, you're going to cut the next blockbuster movie on it. But then you are basically on the wrong boat anyway.
It is, what it is. A cheap appliance thÖat you can toss around as you like without the fear of losing $$$$$. A tool to learn and improve on your Linux - and that includes different desktop environments and slimming down the system. A tool for things to do you don't want to use your valuable MacBook for.
The original PineBook is a tad too far on the lo-spec side now. There are major webpages that don't load on it due to lack of RAM. The PBP will rectify that.
If you want a workhorse, get yourself a Thinkpad x220 from a refurb, put in max RAM and an SSD and buy some spare batteries. You will be able to put any OS - Linux, WIndows or MacOS - on it and work with it productively. And you will possibly pay less than you will pay for a PBP.
PBP is, what the PineBook should have been in the first place. A tinkering machine. A machine to play around without the fear of losing valuable data, A machine to break and fix. The PineBook was broken in too many ways, lack of RAM, flimsy plastic cases ... but it was a start, a concept that points to the right direction.
I have great hopes for the PBP. Still, it won't replace my MacBook or my Surface, but - like it's ancestor - it will follow me to places that I would not dare to take my MacBook to; and this time it hopefully won't disintegrate like the PineBook did....
Sure, but I did pretty good with a ten year old discarded gateway single core laptop with two gigs of RAM running Enlightenment w/ Slackware and GhostBSD. I got some additional years out of it once I sourced good batteries. The machine was a good little work horse, but one day I had a bad day and the machine did not survive it. No fault of the machine. It was shaky, but mostly held together. I can do a lot with a little. But if the pro is not reliable, then it's pointless. I like supporting underdogs who have the heart in the right place, but I will use the machine to death. The original Pinebook did well for me, I used to have a 14" and a 11". The 14" died in an attempt to switch the display to a high reselution panel and the 11" literally drowned. Am I sad? Yes. Am I devastate that I destroyed $$$$? Obviously, I wasn't happy, but frankly, for $99 I could not care less. Both survived for much longer than expected.
Will I hope for more, for a better Hackbook? Obviously yes. Will I expect Macbook level of power and quality? No! The Pinebook Pro is going to be my hackable toy that I will take everywhere I don't want to take my MacBook or my Surface.
Sure, functionality is to be expected. Better quality than the Pinebook, too. But for $199 it still is a hacking toy, albeit this time more software hacking than hardware hacking.
09-15-2019, 06:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2019, 06:27 PM by Watercourse.)
"PINEBOOK Pro
A Powerful, Metal and Open Source ARM 64-Bit Laptop for Work, School or Fun
The Pinebook Pro is meant to deliver solid day-to-day Linux or *BSD experience and to be a compelling alternative to mid-ranged Chromebooks that people convert into Linux laptops."
Really, folks. We're not buying the Millennial Falcon here, but is IS likely to be a solid day-to-day ticket out of the Evil Empire(s). Swing with it!
(09-15-2019, 06:24 PM)Watercourse Wrote: "PINEBOOK Pro
A Powerful, Metal and Open Source ARM 64-Bit Laptop for Work, School or Fun
The Pinebook Pro is meant to deliver solid day-to-day Linux or *BSD experience and to be a compelling alternative to mid-ranged Chromebooks that people convert into Linux laptops."
Really, folks. We're not buying the Millennial Falcon here, but is IS likely to be a solid day-to-day ticket out of the Evil Empire(s). Swing with it!
Yep, as long as people understand what they're getting into and don't come at it like a typical entitled consumer where they expect a champagne and caviar breakfast at a five star restaurant when what they actually paid for was a good omelette and a cup of coffee at a well liked diner.
A lot of people who have never had anything but a cheap plastic laptop are potentially in for a real nice surprise with that magnesium alloy body. Premium bodies tend to have different/better feel to their "drive" than cheap plastic laptops. The body doesn't just help looks or provide more durability, in my experience they tend to change the feel of basic use things like typing and the trackpad in positive ways.
The PBP has the potential to reduce waste far more than 99 percent of other laptops out there. How many times have we been forced to buy whole new laptops that had perfectly good screens and bodies to get faster processors? The promise of the PBP is that we'll be able to upgrade these things down the road to Pine64s future flagship processors/boards.
Not just with upgrades, repairs too... board dies? Trivial replacement. Screen breaks? Trivial replacement. Keyboard worn out? Trivial replacement. The user serviceability of the design based on what has been shared so far, points to being able to keep things going for years longer than other laptops. That reduces waste far more than being able to change the storage size of a finger nail size chip at the time you order.
I'm really excited about what this laptop represents. That second batch can't come soon enough.
(09-15-2019, 09:32 PM)odinson Wrote: (09-15-2019, 06:24 PM)Watercourse Wrote: "PINEBOOK Pro
A Powerful, Metal and Open Source ARM 64-Bit Laptop for Work, School or Fun
The Pinebook Pro is meant to deliver solid day-to-day Linux or *BSD experience and to be a compelling alternative to mid-ranged Chromebooks that people convert into Linux laptops."
Really, folks. We're not buying the Millennial Falcon here, but is IS likely to be a solid day-to-day ticket out of the Evil Empire(s). Swing with it!
Yep, as long as people understand what they're getting into and don't come at it like a typical entitled consumer where they expect a champagne and caviar breakfast at a five star restaurant when what they actually paid for was a good omelette and a cup of coffee at a well liked diner.
A lot of people who have never had anything but a cheap plastic laptop are potentially in for a real nice surprise with that magnesium alloy body. Premium bodies tend to have different/better feel to their "drive" than cheap plastic laptops. The body doesn't just help looks or provide more durability, in my experience they tend to change the feel of basic use things like typing and the trackpad in positive ways.
The PBP has the potential to reduce waste far more than 99 percent of other laptops out there. How many times have we been forced to buy whole new laptops that had perfectly good screens and bodies to get faster processors? The promise of the PBP is that we'll be able to upgrade these things down the road to Pine64s future flagship processors/boards.
Not just with upgrades, repairs too... board dies? Trivial replacement. Screen breaks? Trivial replacement. Keyboard worn out? Trivial replacement. The user serviceability of the design based on what has been shared so far, points to being able to keep things going for years longer than other laptops. That reduces waste far more than being able to change the storage size of a finger nail size chip at the time you order.
I'm really excited about what this laptop represents. That second batch can't come soon enough.
Come now, who said anything about caviar and champagne breakfast? Having a laptop slog at some basic, day-to-day tasks such as word processing, web browsing, answering emails and working with GIMP/Scribus and Inkscape is hardly a champagne breakfast. The screen is 1080p and it can play 4K videos so I am thinking basic graphics work is not "typical entitled consumer" territory. The response here is "How dare you! The PineBook Pro to get actual work done? You prig! You must watch BigBuckBunny instead as that is what the device is optimized for!" Rather than the bourgeois, I am merely a lowly prole who wishes to get some humble work done. I do not anticipate creating 'Tears of Steel' on the device, just some EPK's, text, listen to tunes, do some web dev...no biggie, but I guess it is.
There's a big difference between word processing and video processing, as for some people wants the PBP for. Yeah it can run Quake smoothly, yet en/de/coding 4K video stream is another beast.
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