Hardware Source
#1
Hi there!

As you state on the Pine64 homepage, "PINE64 is an open source platform from both hardware to software.", I was wondering

- when
- where
- in which form

we can expect the PCB sources to show up?

Thanks for all your efforts, can't wait for my 64+ to arrive!

Cheers,
enoCeniP


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#2
(01-23-2016, 07:01 AM)enoCeniP Wrote: Hi there!

As you state on the Pine64 homepage, "PINE64 is an open source platform from both hardware to software.", I was wondering

- when
- where
- in which form

we can expect the PCB sources to show up?

Thanks for all your efforts, can't wait for my 64+ to arrive!

Cheers,
enoCeniP

A,lot of hardwrae info already post at Pine64 wiki site, http://wiki.pine64.org.

The Pine64 schematic will be posted when we start ship out the first batch on February and wil be posted on Pine64 wiki page. The reason of publish together when board delivery is to minimize revision confusion that may generate unnecessary Q and A,

As mentioned earlier, we will post schematic but not PCB layout source file. However, we can post the PCB image file.

Regards,
TL Lim
  Reply
#3
(01-23-2016, 11:28 AM)tllim Wrote: A,lot of hardwrae info already post at Pine64 wiki site, http://wiki.pine64.org.

The Pine64 schematic will be posted when we start ship out the first batch on February and wil be posted on Pine64 wiki page. The reason of publish together when board delivery is to minimize revision confusion that may generate unnecessary Q and A,

As mentioned earlier, we will post schematic but not PCB layout source file. However, we can post the PCB image file.

Regards,
TL Lim

Hi TL Lim,

thanks for the fast reply.

Releasing the files only when the final revision is shipping is a good idea! Avoids confusion, as you say.

But I am a little confused about your statement, that only the schematic, but not the layout will be published. Could you give us a reason for that decision?

And doesn't that in essence mean, that the Pine64 is not an open source hardware platform?

How would I be able to study and modify the board, if you don't publish the PCB layout files?

Thanks in advance,

cheers,
enoCeniP
  Reply
#4
(01-23-2016, 12:39 PM)enoCeniP Wrote:
(01-23-2016, 11:28 AM)tllim Wrote: A,lot of hardwrae info already post at Pine64 wiki site, http://wiki.pine64.org.

The Pine64 schematic will be posted when we start ship out the first batch on February and wil be posted on Pine64 wiki page. The reason of publish together when board delivery is to minimize revision confusion that may generate unnecessary Q and A,

As mentioned earlier, we will post schematic but not PCB layout source file. However, we can post the PCB image file.

Regards,
TL Lim

Hi TL Lim,

thanks for the fast reply.

Releasing the files only when the final revision is shipping is a good idea! Avoids confusion, as you say.

But I am a little confused about your statement, that only the schematic, but not the layout will be published. Could you give us a reason for that decision?

And doesn't that in essence mean, that the Pine64 is not an open source hardware platform?

How would I be able to study and modify the board, if you don't publish the PCB layout files?

Thanks in advance,

cheers,
enoCeniP
We did not see the reason of release PCB source file is necessary. In general, schematic and PCB image file already enough for board modification which I have been practiced for more than 30 years.
One main reason is we don't mind DIY modify the board for their project needs but we don't plan to support the modified board such as optimized DRAM path for overclocking.
Pine64 is NOT an open source hardware project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_op...e_projects).
  Reply
#5
what is version of schematic? PDF or software version,
  Reply
#6
(01-23-2016, 01:43 PM)hazerty Wrote: what is version of schematic? PDF or  software version,

PDF
  Reply
#7
(01-23-2016, 12:58 PM)tllim Wrote: We did not see the reason of release PCB source file is necessary. In general, schematic and PCB image file already enough for board modification which I have been practiced for more than 30 years.
One main reason is we don't mind DIY modify the board for their project needs but we don't plan to support the modified board such as optimized DRAM path for overclocking.
Pine64 is NOT an open source hardware project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_op...e_projects).

Hi TL Lim,

again, thanks for the quick response.

If you don't see a reason for open sourcing the hardware, why do you advertise open hardware? I backed your Kickstarter campaign thinking I was supporting an open hardware project, as it's stated on your homepage! I feel a little duped now to be honest.

Can you elaborate, why you decided not to make the Pine64 an open hardware platform?

You mentioned, that you don't want to support people who want to overclock the board. But you wouldn't have to do that at all. If you would publish the boards source files, people could do what they wanted, but there's not obligation for you to further support them.

On the other hand, I think being a real open source project would gain you a significant bonus from the whole DIY/Make community. You rely on open source software to make the board work anyway, so why don't just commit to it?

Or do you fear that someone can manufacture and sell your Pine for less? I strongly doubt that that's realistic.

Cheers,

enoCeniP
  Reply
#8
overclocking capable?
  Reply
#9
(01-23-2016, 02:04 PM)enoCeniP Wrote:
(01-23-2016, 12:58 PM)tllim Wrote: We did not see the reason of release PCB source file is necessary. In general, schematic and PCB image file already enough for board modification which I have been practiced for more than 30 years.
One main reason is we don't mind DIY modify the board for their project needs but we don't plan to support the modified board such as optimized DRAM path for overclocking.
Pine64 is NOT an open source hardware project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_op...e_projects).

Hi TL Lim,

again, thanks for the quick response.

If you don't see a reason for open sourcing the hardware, why do you advertise open hardware? I backed your Kickstarter campaign thinking I was supporting an open hardware project, as it's stated on your homepage! I feel a little duped now to be honest.

Can you elaborate, why you decided not to make the Pine64 an open hardware platform?

You mentioned, that you don't want to support people who want to overclock the board. But you wouldn't have to do that at all. If you would publish the boards source files, people could do what they wanted, but there's not obligation for you to further support them.

On the other hand, I think being a real open source project would gain you a significant bonus from the whole DIY/Make community. You rely on open source software to make the board work anyway, so why don't just commit to it?

Or do you fear that someone can manufacture and sell your Pine for less? I strongly doubt that that's realistic.

Cheers,

enoCeniP
Frankly I feel duped as well when I saw that this was an open hardware project - figuring, like Adafruit, you would publish eagle files on GitHub. I would assume that most people are like myself who just want to be able to learn more from the design by tracing signal paths etc.   It is not some attempt at ripping you off.  The people who want to rip you off have more than enough knowledge to copy the design without even a PDF schematic. There is no logic to support your position especially since you advertised this as open hardware. And if you don't really know what open hardware means that is even more to be concerned about.

SMH,

Tom
  Reply
#10
I agree with previous comments.
If this was advertised as an open source hardware project, then it should be treated that way.
  Reply


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