Why projects like PinePhone matter – feedback and encouragement

[Gary2003]

Hello everyone,

I’d like to share my experience as a user of the PinePhone beta running Manjaro.
Despite a few imperfections – which I fully expect from a device that’s still close to a prototype – I’m actually very happy with it overall. It’s an exciting project, and I want to sincerely thank and congratulate the developers for the great work they’ve done so far.

If I may add a small remark: a slightly smaller screen might have helped improve battery life.
I understand that large screens are the trend nowadays, but some users like me mainly look for a more compact device, focused on basic daily features.
For me, the essential functions are:

• making calls,
  
• saving contacts,
  
• sending text messages.
  
  

I find it very important to have a Linux smartphone that respects user privacy. With messaging evolving (and SMS being gradually replaced by RCS), I truly hope there will be a software update or even a future model that can cover this use case as well.

I also read here on the forum that RCS may not be such a good solution, since Google and Apple have basically taken it over with their own servers and apps, which turns it into another data collection system. Honestly, I used to think RCS was a good replacement for SMS, but now I’m not so sure… Does this really mean that traditional text messaging will eventually be fully replaced by RCS, despite all these privacy concerns?

One thing I honestly don’t quite understand is why Signal doesn’t support this project. From an ethical standpoint, a private and Linux-based phone perfectly aligns with the values they promote. It would make a lot of sense if they engaged more with initiatives like this.

Once again, congratulations on this project. Please keep it going – it really answers a real need for many users.
Thank you and best of luck with the ongoing development!

[zetabeta]

Hello everyone,

I’d like to share my experience as a user of the PinePhone beta running Manjaro.
Despite a few imperfections – which I fully expect from a device that’s still close to a prototype – I’m actually very happy with it overall. It’s an exciting project, and I want to sincerely thank and congratulate the developers for the great work they’ve done so far.

If I may add a small remark: a slightly smaller screen might have helped improve battery life.
I understand that large screens are the trend nowadays, but some users like me mainly look for a more compact device, focused on basic daily features.
For me, the essential functions are:

• making calls,
  
• saving contacts,
  
• sending text messages.
  
  

I find it very important to have a Linux smartphone that respects user privacy. With messaging evolving (and SMS being gradually replaced by RCS), I truly hope there will be a software update or even a future model that can cover this use case as well.

I also read here on the forum that RCS may not be such a good solution, since Google and Apple have basically taken it over with their own servers and apps, which turns it into another data collection system. Honestly, I used to think RCS was a good replacement for SMS, but now I’m not so sure… Does this really mean that traditional text messaging will eventually be fully replaced by RCS, despite all these privacy concerns?

One thing I honestly don’t quite understand is why Signal doesn’t support this project. From an ethical standpoint, a private and Linux-based phone perfectly aligns with the values they promote. It would make a lot of sense if they engaged more with initiatives like this.

Once again, congratulations on this project. Please keep it going – it really answers a real need for many users.
Thank you and best of luck with the ongoing development!

i bought my first pinephone in 2020 july. i took a risk, but it was worth it. more or less i knew in that time that android is going down through sewage holes by alphabet inc.

thinking overall, i like to thank pine organization going for this project. i'm more confident about future of actual linux phones now. and there is a one project going on i'm looking for, and more ready to some risks.

playing alternate timeline card, not going for pinephone. i might have been felt hopeless for smartphone tech, like getting worse and worse, no alternate in sight.

alphabet inc is increasing control over android yet again. and we really need altenatives for ios and android. apple has controlled iphones totally at the first place.

One thing I honestly don’t quite understand is why Signal doesn’t support this project. From an ethical standpoint, a private and Linux-based phone perfectly aligns with the values they promote. It would make a lot of sense if they engaged more with initiatives like this.

i wonder this as well. signal is too much stuck to ios and googled android. installing signal to un-googled android is not straightforward project. i know that link is https://signal.org/android/apk/ , but not easy to find from main website. signal should support alternate devices as a primary device activation. signal-desktop is way to start.

[Kevin Kofler]

For Signal, you have to use third-party clients. There are basically 3 options worth trying:
* Flare has experimental support for running as a primary device, which can be enabled with an environment variable.
* You can use signal-cli (a third-party Java client for Signal that provides (only) a command-line interface) as the primary device (either on the PinePhone itself or on a computer) and pair Flare on the PinePhone with that.
* You can use signal-cli (see above) as the primary device and pair the official signal-desktop desktop client on the PinePhone with that. Though the user interface of that client is not optimized for mobile devices, and there are also some features it does not and will probably never support.

[Gary2003]

Hello everyone,

I’d like to continue my reflections, starting from my previous message about the PinePhone and the importance of having a real Linux alternative in the mobile world.

Over the years, there have been several attempts to create smartphones outside the Android ecosystem. Projects like Firefox OS and Ubuntu Touch appeared, but unfortunately didn’t last long.

As a long-time Linux user on desktop computers, there’s a strong desire to find the same freedom, transparency, and sense of community-driven development on a phone. On the desktop, there’s a wide variety of constantly evolving distributions.

On mobile, it’s a lot more complicated. Too often, promising projects disappear and users are left with very few true alternatives. That’s why I was glad, after several years of waiting, to discover the PinePhone.

As I said in my previous message, the PinePhone is essentially a prototype that mainly targets Linux enthusiasts. I am well aware that the general public isn’t necessarily drawn to this smartphone. Many people prefer a phone packed with apps and games. On top of that, almost everyone uses WhatsApp as their primary messaging app.

Regarding Signal, I just wanted to say it would have been great to have a preinstalled app, like Firefox, on the PinePhone. Still, I realize that’s not an easy task and the developers surely have other priorities. It’s nonetheless very positive that there’s already a functional desktop version.

I highlighted things like battery life and screen size, especially focusing on basic uses—calls, contacts, SMS—to lighten the developers’ workload and help them concentrate on the essentials.

The PinePhone project is currently on hold, which is really unfortunate. I understand, though, that this is a major challenge: even giants like Jeff Bezos abandoned his Firephone. Facebook, for its part, tried launching a smartphone with HTC and its “Facebook Home” overlay, but that project ended in failure. Even Microsoft tried and didn’t succeed...

I’ll finish on a note of puzzlement: how is it that manufacturers are able to produce robust, simple phones like Crosscall’s CORE-S5 (running MocorOS), but aren’t able to offer the same kind of device in an all-touch form, as a small smartphone? Such a device, both simple and easy for writing messages, seems like it would meet a real need.

Thank you all for taking the time to read.

[biketool]

Hello everyone,

I’d like to continue my reflections, starting from my previous message about the PinePhone and the importance of having a real Linux alternative in the mobile world.

Over the years, there have been several attempts to create smartphones outside the Android ecosystem. Projects like Firefox OS and Ubuntu Touch appeared, but unfortunately didn’t last long.

As a long-time Linux user on desktop computers, there’s a strong desire to find the same freedom, transparency, and sense of community-driven development on a phone. On the desktop, there’s a wide variety of constantly evolving distributions.

On mobile, it’s a lot more complicated. Too often, promising projects disappear and users are left with very few true alternatives. That’s why I was glad, after several years of waiting, to discover the PinePhone.

As I said in my previous message, the PinePhone is essentially a prototype that mainly targets Linux enthusiasts. I am well aware that the general public isn’t necessarily drawn to this smartphone. Many people prefer a phone packed with apps and games. On top of that, almost everyone uses WhatsApp as their primary messaging app.

Regarding Signal, I just wanted to say it would have been great to have a preinstalled app, like Firefox, on the PinePhone. Still, I realize that’s not an easy task and the developers surely have other priorities. It’s nonetheless very positive that there’s already a functional desktop version.

I highlighted things like battery life and screen size, especially focusing on basic uses—calls, contacts, SMS—to lighten the developers’ workload and help them concentrate on the essentials.

The PinePhone project is currently on hold, which is really unfortunate. I understand, though, that this is a major challenge: even giants like Jeff Bezos abandoned his Firephone. Facebook, for its part, tried launching a smartphone with HTC and its “Facebook Home” overlay, but that project ended in failure. Even Microsoft tried and didn’t succeed...

I’ll finish on a note of puzzlement: how is it that manufacturers are able to produce robust, simple phones like Crosscall’s CORE-S5 (running MocorOS), but aren’t able to offer the same kind of device in an all-touch form, as a small smartphone? Such a device, both simple and easy for writing messages, seems like it would meet a real need.

Thank you all for taking the time to read.

As for the CORE-S5 and MocorOS I suppose we look at a phone like that as a tool closer to a UHF handheld radio rather than a computing device even though it might have some code running that is unfriendly to the user, but it is still mostly unchangeable hardware to the end user.
There is and will be real interest in truly free mobile devices, the Linux Sharp Zaurus had a phone CF-card module back in 2000, then openmoko, and Nokia Maemo devices.  We are currently and for a long time have been caught in a bad position because the ARM ecosystem usually requires a ridiculous NDA tied bootloader to even get booting started (x86 bootloading is a bit more open but still bad).
With RISC-V and future open processors we can use a straightforward non-secret fully free, open, and libre bootup process, after that getting FOSS certified hardware on the circuit board(needs full documentation, no NDA secret crap) and all that is required is some talented engineering and design to produce a good looking(or just a brick) phone that can take some damage before breaking, can run all day on a single charge and can run the apps we need.
ARM has been the only real player in mobile and is particularly insidious as they do not even make chips they license out the design to other companies to fab and as a company are very secretive hiding too much of the tech behind non-disclosure agreements.

[Gary2003]

Hello,

Thanks for your insightful and detailed response.

I realize now that my mention of the CORE-S5 and MocorOS might have been a bit off-topic.

What I really wanted to express is that, after using my PinePhone with Manjaro, I find it quite impressive despite some areas needing improvement.
I sometimes wonder if a lighter version of the OS, focused on essential features, might have helped developers concentrate on the core system initially and gradually evolve it over time. From what I’ve seen, developers faced significant challenges in fixing various issues.

Anyway, I appreciate your explanation about RISC-V and ARM architectures,
it gives hope for a more open and free mobile future.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts!

[tantamount]

One thing I honestly don’t quite understand is why Signal doesn’t support this project. 

You have to ask why Signal's revenue is so large for a free service.

Review their financials here, and tell me they look like a charity:
https://nonprofitlight.com/ca/mountain-v...foundation

"If the service is free, you are the product."

In addition, last I checked Signal was based on Electron, which is bloatware and has had critical vulnerabilities in the past.

[zetabeta]

You have to ask why Signal's revenue is so large for a free service.

Review their financials here, and tell me they look like a charity:
https://nonprofitlight.com/ca/mountain-v...foundation

"If the service is free, you are the product."

In addition, last I checked Signal was based on Electron, which is bloatware and has had critical vulnerabilities in the past.

but brian acton takes zero dollars and still works for foundation, how could he work for hunger wages ! [end of sarcasm].

https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofi...01826/full

FORM 990, PART VI, SECTION A, LINE 6:
THE ORGANIZATION HAS ONE SOLE MEMBER, BRIAN ACTON, WHO IS ALSO DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT, SECRETARY/TREASURER, AND CEO OF THE ORGANIZATION.

FORM 990, PART VI, SECTION A, LINE 7A:
THE ORGANIZATION'S SOLE MEMBER HAS THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO ELECT ANY DIRECTOR.

FORM 990, PART VI, SECTION A, LINE 7B:
THE MEMBER OF THE CORPORATION HAS THE FOLLOWING RIGHTS, AS SET FORTH BY THE BYLAWS: (I) THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO ELECT ANY DIRECTOR AND TO SET THE NUMBER OF AUTHORIZED DIRECTORS; (II) THE RIGHT TO REMOVE A DIRECTOR; (III) THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON ANY SALE, LEASE, TRANSFER, OR OTHER DISPOSITION OF ALL OR SUBSTANTIALLY ALL OF THE ASSETS OR PROPERTIES OF THIS CORPORATION; (IV) THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON ANY MERGER OF THIS CORPORATION, BUT ONLY TO THE EXTENT REQUIRED BY THE DELAWARE GENERAL CORPORATION LAW; (V) THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON THE DISSOLUTION OF THIS CORPORATION; (VI) THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON THE AMENDMENT OR REPEAL OF THE BYLAWS; (VII) THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON ANY AMENDMENT TO THE CERTIFICATE OF INCORPORATION; AND (VIII) THE RIGHT TO VOTE ON ANY OTHER MATTERS THAT MAY PROPERLY BE PRESENTED TO THE MEMBERS FOR A VOTE, PURSUANT TO THIS CORPORATION'S CERTIFICATE OF INCORPORATION, BYLAWS, OR ACTION OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, OR BY OPERATION OF LAW.

basically it says that brian acton is a dictator in signal foundation.

https://www.forbes.com/profile/brian-acton/

brian acton has 3.6 billion dollar net worth. he is a billionaire, i like to call him as minibillionaire, because other dudes like elon musk, mark zuckerberg and larry elison have more 100 billion dollars.

however, brian acton left whatsapp, because of disagreements with facebook, now meta inc. then he founded signal foundation.

i stilll recommend signal messeger over whatsapp and telegram.

[Gary2003]

I am repeating myself compared to my previous messages, but when I saw that messaging was going to switch to RCS and that the PinePhone was discontinued, I started researching seriously. I thought that sooner or later, I would probably have to switch to the iPhone, which today seems more respectful of privacy than Android smartphones.

I also heard the president of Signal Meredith Whittaker in a documentary, and it confirmed to me that this app could really interest me the day I have to switch to the iPhone. But when I read your messages, I finally think that it’s quite particular.
I prefer https://meet.jit.si/, unless you tell me that it’s not very clear there either...

That being said, honestly, spending so much on an iPhone for technology I don’t really need is like buying a Porsche 911 just to go to work — it’s nice, but personally, I don’t need it.

That’s also why I wondered if I wouldn’t be better off with a mobile phone with a physical keyboard. It might be more complicated to write messages, but at least I would limit expenses and keep a simpler device.

When I see that today not all TVs run Android, there is Tizen, Titan OS, etc., I hope there will be something on the smartphone side as well, and especially with RISC-V, I hope that won’t take too long and that there will be change... Maybe at that time there will be a new PinePhone...

[zetabeta]

I started researching seriously. I thought that sooner or later, I would probably have to switch to the iPhone, which today seems more respectful of privacy than Android smartphones.

apple and privacy .... may i laugh for 2 days!

maybe apple doesn't leak data to third parties like ads, but data is used in-doors. apple collects data like others.

and personally i think android might be better than ios in case of privacy, although it is complicated. maybe average stock android without modifications is worse than ios. but android could be debloated, although difficult. installing custom image is better way to go, although only on some devices.

where apple is definitely worse than alphabet inc and android manufactures, is lack of user control. apple controls roughly everything in their devices from bootloader to apps. in the longer run, if user doesn't have control over their devices, can they have privacy either. privacy might be just apple's empty promise and totally up to apple to keep it.

When I see that today not all TVs run Android, there is Tizen, Titan OS, etc., I hope there will be something on the smartphone side as well, and especially with RISC-V, I hope that won’t take too long and that there will be change... Maybe at that time there will be a new PinePhone...

what i know, pretty much all smartTVs are bad. it is added close source components which are doing nasty stuff.

That’s also why I wondered if I wouldn’t be better off with a mobile phone with a physical keyboard. It might be more complicated to write messages, but at least I would limit expenses and keep a simpler device.

let's just say that i'm more concerned about underlying operating system than some physical stuff like keyboard.