I agree that the basic hardware support needs urgent work. I have absolutely no experience doing kernel development. Is it realistic that I could dive into it knowing nothing at all and produce useful code in a useful amount of time?
I bought my PinePhone with the intention of doing front-end development and now I'm paralyzed by indecision. I want Plasma-Mobile to succeed because I really like Plasma Desktop, so I'm currently leaning towards Kirigami app development.
I actually don't think the PinePhone will ever be my daily driver. I'm simply much too used to the high performance of flagship Samsung phones. I kinda see the PinePhone as a platform to stabilize and provide useful software for in a lead up to much better hardware down the line. I would happily pay $1000 or more for much better hardware.
(10-08-2020, 01:12 PM)bilb Wrote: I would happily pay $1000 or more for much better hardware. https://puri.sm/products/librem-5
https://puri.sm/products/librem-5-usa
After reading again all the posts, I would like to comment 3 points:
- people using PP as a daily driver are very brave, but not realistic If you are missing phone calls, missing messages, etc. You are going to be missing meetings, calls from the doctor, from the kids' school, etc You can put a brick in your pocket and say is your daily driver, but is not. The phone has to be able to get phone calls and txt and being able to call and text without major issues.
- From some posts, I understand that hardware/firmware should go first, then OS would go faster. Is that true? Because if this is true, donations from PP and people should go to the priority. Let's get the firmware working then let's worry about the OS.
-I have the impression that if important issues as point 2 are ignored, the PP project will die as a realistic project. It might survive as a toy for tinkers, developers, etc but will never become a real phone. May be is what is it. An exploratory platform to prove a linux phone is possible (but not PP). Is PP about this?
10-08-2020, 03:39 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2020, 03:45 PM by Subsentient.)
(10-08-2020, 01:12 PM)bilb Wrote: I agree that the basic hardware support needs urgent work. I have absolutely no experience doing kernel development. Is it realistic that I could dive into it knowing nothing at all and produce useful code in a useful amount of time?
I bought my PinePhone with the intention of doing front-end development and now I'm paralyzed by indecision. I want Plasma-Mobile to succeed because I really like Plasma Desktop, so I'm currently leaning towards Kirigami app development.
I actually don't think the PinePhone will ever be my daily driver. I'm simply much too used to the high performance of flagship Samsung phones. I kinda see the PinePhone as a platform to stabilize and provide useful software for in a lead up to much better hardware down the line. I would happily pay $1000 or more for much better hardware. If you know C fairly well, then kernel development shouldn't be that difficult. It takes learning the codebase, which I haven't had time to do. There's not really a need for assembly language in the drivers that need work, there's really not much of it in the kernel to begin with, so that shouldn't be a concern. I definitely think you could be useful if you know C.
(10-08-2020, 03:35 PM)natasha Wrote: After reading again all the posts, I would like to comment 3 points:
- people using PP as a daily driver are very brave, but not realistic If you are missing phone calls, missing messages, etc. You are going to be missing meetings, calls from the doctor, from the kids' school, etc You can put a brick in your pocket and say is your daily driver, but is not. The phone has to be able to get phone calls and txt and being able to call and text without major issues.
- From some posts, I understand that hardware/firmware should go first, then OS would go faster. Is that true? Because if this is true, donations from PP and people should go to the priority. Let's get the firmware working then let's worry about the OS.
-I have the impression that if important issues as point 2 are ignored, the PP project will die as a realistic project. It might survive as a toy for tinkers, developers, etc but will never become a real phone. May be is what is it. An exploratory platform to prove a linux phone is possible (but not PP). Is PP about this? - I have indeed suffered a bit from the intermittance of my BraveHeart, but overall I think I've gained more than I lost. For me, the objective of the PinePhone is so critically important, I'm willing to sacrifice a bit to see it come to pass.
- Kernel development and phone-related subsystems are the biggest problems. The modem firmware *is* undoubtably buggy and partially broken, but it definitely can be worked around. The USB disconnects, for example, can be worked around if software is smart enough to wait for the connection to resume. I think our first priority is the kernel, which is common to all operating systems that currently boot on the PinePhone.
- I do think that's a serious concern, but I don't think we've reached that point yet, and I don't think we should give up yet. I do think with enough work the PinePhone could be stable, but we need to pick up the pace and direct effort where it's really needed, rather than fluffy GUI stuff that ironically relies on the broken pieces.
10-08-2020, 03:53 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2020, 04:05 PM by bcnaz.)
My Pine phones are working !
I do not have missed calls, or undelivered texts, I do carry a dumb message phone as a secondary back-up because of that possibility.
The while, I do use the Pine phones as my main phones, they are still in development. I do use different carriers for each Pine phone to try and see if
one carrier works better than the other at the same time and conditions.
I do have to sometimes, restart the phones, but my previous iphone and Google phones had to be restarted sometimes also... SO ?....
I DO Contribute $ to the Developers also.
Since I am a basic GUI user I cannot contribute code, But, I do help where I can.
LINUX = CHOICES
**BCnAZ**
Donate to $upport
your favorite OS Team
(10-08-2020, 03:39 PM)Subsentient Wrote: - I have indeed suffered a bit from the intermittance of my BraveHeart, but overall I think I've gained more than I lost. For me, the objective of the PinePhone is so critically important, I'm willing to sacrifice a bit to see it come to pass.
- Kernel development and phone-related subsystems are the biggest problems. The modem firmware *is* undoubtably buggy and partially broken, but it definitely can be worked around. The USB disconnects, for example, can be worked around if software is smart enough to wait for the connection to resume. I think our first priority is the kernel, which is common to all operating systems that currently boot on the PinePhone.
- I do think that's a serious concern, but I don't think we've reached that point yet, and I don't think we should give up yet. I do think with enough work the PinePhone could be stable, but we need to pick up the pace and direct effort where it's really needed, rather than fluffy GUI stuff that ironically relies on the broken pieces.
Ok, I follow you. I can wait for PP if I see the project is moving. You said for Kernel development we could help to donate here https://xnux.eu/contribute.html So is this guy the best to donate? is a main developer for the kernel? is there a list or kernel developers?
I don't mind to do periodically donations if this moves the project. Maybe this should be advertised, so everyone interested in the PP, donate, so we can support him/them.
10-08-2020, 04:26 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2020, 04:46 PM by Subsentient.)
(10-08-2020, 04:05 PM)natasha Wrote: Ok, I follow you. I can wait for PP if I see the project is moving. You said for Kernel development we could help to donate here https://xnux.eu/contribute.html So is this guy the best to donate? is a main developer for the kernel? is there a list or kernel developers?
I don't mind to do periodically donations if this moves the project. Maybe this should be advertised, so everyone interested in the PP, donate, so we can support him/them. There's no list of relevant kernel developers, but yes, megi is probably the best kernel dev for the PinePhone right now, and the best place to direct your donations. He's doing the most out of anyone by far. He's not affiliated with Pine64, he's just a programmer who is the only reason you have modem support at all.
Sadly, it's questionable whether we can do anything about Quectel's buggy firmware at all, as they seem to be "that kind" of company. At one place in one of their licenses, it says something to the effect of "public domain for Quectel customers only", which is an oxymoron and is illegal. I think our efforts are much better spent working around the bugs, rather than trying to convince Quectel to fix their issues or let someone else do it for them.
10-08-2020, 06:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-08-2020, 11:37 PM by RTP.)
Something others (who have the option) may want to try: Use your old phone as a wifi tablet after wiping all cellular settings. This works well for me as I can check/rely on wifi for any Android apps I could not do without. I plan to keep using Pinephone as a daily driver.
I am personally very happy/satisfied with my Pinephone and find it very usable for my expectations/uses. I appreciate all the hard work from the devs who donate their personal time/work/problem solving skills to bring us something usable (and for me Mobian is very usable). I have had a lot of fun experimenting so far and tbh never held super high expectations for a $150 community driven phone, especially first months into Community Edition releases. This is a $150 hardware device and Pine64 merely supplies the hardware part. Most Pinephone OS dev teams are not that large.
I'm using a Pinephone UT Community Edition as my daily driver (running Mobian mostly atm, Ubuntu Touch, Arch, Manjaro). For me Mobian is most usable/stable enough and I have enjoyed watching and experiencing the progress on each. Never expected to be able to use/run Inkscape on a Linux phone for $150.
To add: I haven't missed a single text message on Mobian <3. I haven't missed a call (that I am aware of, no one has said anything). In fact I have to wonder if my telemarketer calls have somehow become *more* reliable :-P. Call issues may also relate to carrier (2g, 3g, 4g, LTE voice..) and service/compatability for some users.
Donating money is one way to help and show devs interest/appreciation for their project. I think the best thing we can do as things stand now is try to get more active in development process, in any way we are able. Trying to help report bugs is one way I think the community can pull together stronger. Gather information on bugs as we experience them, try to find a way to reproduce them (when possible).
- RTP
"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few." -Shunryu Suzuki
[ Pinephone Original | Pinetab v1 / v2 Enjoyer ]
Linux Device Privacy / Security Playlist
pine(2) verb - suffer a mental and physical decline, especially because of sorrow.
ORIGIN Old English pinian '(cause to) suffer', of Germanic origin ultimately based on Latin poena 'punishment'.
(Oxford English Dictionary)
I hope we can find the necessary subtle masochists.
@ bcnaz @ RTP
I recently tested Mobian on my Braveheart and if the device is locked/sleeping inbound calls do not ring/wakeup the device. Are you saying you do not suffer from this issue?
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