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+-- Forum: PinePhone (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=120)
+--- Forum: PinePhone Software (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=121)
+--- Thread: Frustration with development pace (/showthread.php?tid=11754)
Frustration with development pace - Subsentient - 10-07-2020
It's probably a terrible idea to make this thread, but I feel like I should voice my thoughts. I'm imagining I'm going to get a lot of hate for this.
And please understand, I love the PinePhone, and I want nothing else but for it to succeed, but I don't like what I'm seeing on the software side right now.
I'm disheartened and concerned at the glacial pace of PinePhone software development, and I'm deeply surprised and disappointed that an actual Linux phone with shipping units isn't getting much, much more development love. A new SBC, sure, makes sense. Limited appeal. The first actual shipping Linux phone? Cmon.
I was always afraid that the PinePhone would end up as another poorly supported ARM board with half broken drivers. It's starting to look like that could turn out to be the fate of this device after all. Bringing back horrible memories of FriendlyARM SBCs.
I've wanted a phone that could run Linux since I was just 13 years old.
Now I have it, and call audio still cuts out, the phone won't always wake from sleep on incoming calls, I get duplicate texts out the wazoo, the screen flickers on wake among other issues, it's just tiring. I'm currently trapped on a months old kernel without proper wifi support because anything newer is unusable in multiple areas.
You'd expect progress to be visible, but with everything fixed, something else breaks.
I don't expect the UI to be polished, or for MMS to work, or for Anbox to run, or even for backlight control to work properly. I just think that after this many months, we should have the core functionality of a 2003 flip phone at a semi-stable place. Instead, I have to reset the modem several times a day because call audio will quit and outgoing calls disappear with no way to hang up, and some SMS messages just never arrive, ever.
I've done a small amount of work for the PinePhone, writing pplockd and patching kernel drivers until I get them usable in some cases, but I have contract work obligations and poor health, and I'm not too knowledgeable about the kernel's codebase or physical hardware interfaces, so it's hit and miss. I started writing a better calls app, then ran out of time to work on it.
I wonder if everyone else is having the same problem. A desire and ability to help but, no time or energy to do so? I suppose that's the curse of capitalism at work.
I wish Pine64 had the funds to hire one full-time experienced kernel developer, as that's what's really needed imho.
Thoughts?
RE: Frustration with development pace - firefox-58 - 10-07-2020
Absolutely correct!
I am a kind of "shocked" that not even the basic functions of an mobile phone - CALLS and SMS - are working something like reliable after months. For me it looks that PHOSH would never ever be complete and usable, plasma-mobile is far, very far from being usable. Only UB-Touch gives something like usability. But also has unreliable calls and SMS
If Manjaro not can "repair" this with an lomiri build, I fear that the money for the PinePhone is lost.
The devs are dependent from what PHOSH or plasma-mobile developers can deliver. And ATM this is not fulfilling any basic things which are necessary.
Also the librem/phosh project is years away from being usable and the delivery is postponed and postponed.
So we can only hope that Manjaro can develop its Lomiri builds.
ATM I am using with joy my other Linux based smartphone: A SONY Xperia X running stable and flawlessly on Sailfish OS. Calls and SMS work, Caldav/Carddav works, ActiveSync works, Camera works, Browser and internet are working and the battery lasts for 2-3 days.
Just my 2 cents
RE: Frustration with development pace - LinAdmin2 - 10-07-2020
(10-07-2020, 02:23 AM)firefox-58 Wrote: ATM I am using with joy my other Linux based smartphone: A SONY Xperia X running stable and flawlessly on Sailfish OS. Calls and SMS work, Caldav/Carddav works, ActiveSync works, Camera works, Browser and internet are working and the battery lasts for 2-3 days.A Linux phone for real daily use currently can only be realized the way you describe it. This comes from the fact that even for the basic functions the software system is highly complex.
My forecast for PinePhone looks rather uncertain because it might be that for the Quectel modem the power consumption can not be sufficiently lowered. (Does anybody know in what standard phones that chip is used?)
For such a heretical opinion I got down voted by a gang of three, supported by evil bunnies and some intolerant administrators. May the heavens beware you and Subsentient from this sad fate...
RE: Frustration with development pace - Subsentient - 10-07-2020
(10-07-2020, 02:58 AM)LinAdmin2 Wrote: My forecast for PinePhone looks rather uncertain because it might be that for the Quectel modem the power consumption can not be sufficiently lowered. (Does anybody know in what standard phones that chip is used?)
Yeah, I noticed the Quectel modem is a real pig on power usage. I hope it's possible, but I'm definitely skeptical.
As for people claiming 8 hour battery life, I have CRUST firmware, can barely get 3 out of it, WITH mem sleep.
RE: Frustration with development pace - fsflover - 10-07-2020
Thank you for starting this topic, it's an important thing to discuss. I hope someone from the development community describes the current situation and problems and maybe explains what has to be done and how long it might take.
RE: Frustration with development pace - firefox-58 - 10-07-2020
(10-07-2020, 04:35 AM)fsflover Wrote: Thank you for starting this topic, it's an important thing to discuss. I hope someone from the development community describes the current situation and problems and maybe explains what has to be done and how long it might take.
Yepp, the modem seems to be a BIG problem. Pinetab without any modem has absolutely no problem running 12h and more with UB-Touch
RE: Frustration with development pace - Veraendert - 10-07-2020
It woud help to know which OS you´re running because my battery life sure is better than 3 hours on both ALARM & Mobian. I know that other OS´s don´ t turn off the screen while sleeping which results in battery drain. For battery runtime on different distributions see https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=11321&page=2
I, myself, am very happy with both the phone and progress.
But then my hopes maybe weren´ t as high as yours. Look at Android and how long it took to become somewhat usable. And we´re talking about a billion dollar project there. Not something that´s being worked on in people´s spare time.
RE: Frustration with development pace - LinAdmin2 - 10-07-2020
(10-07-2020, 04:54 AM)Veraendert Wrote: It woud help to know which OS you´re running because my battery life sure is better than 3 hours on both ALARM & Mobian. I know that other OS´s don´ t turn off the screen while sleeping which results in battery drain.Of course it is better than 3 hours, but far away from what is required for daily use (24h).
I, myself, am very happy with both the phone and progress.
But then my hopes maybe weren´ t as high as yours. Look at Android and how long it took to become somewhat usable. And we´re talking about a billion dollar project there. Not something that´s being worked on in people´s spare time.
Limits given by hardware choices like the modem can not be crossed and it might well be that PinePhone will never become fit for daily use.
RE: Frustration with development pace - firefox-58 - 10-07-2020
The progress is somehow irritating as long as principal basics of a PHONE do not work and we have no information if/how/when this would be ever fixed. This no new project and its frustrating that after months we cannot have reliable basic functions.
Manjaro brings builds 1 or two times a week. But NOTHING which brings any better basic functions. Before we can talk about battery runtimes and other things the phone has to do what a phone is built for! Reliable Calls and SMS
On the Pinetab it begins to move towards an similar situation:
New builds on all platforms all 2-3 days. But NO ONE build which has the possibility to have the display in an usable orientation! Setup dialogues could not be filled and answered correct, Even the builtin dialogues can often not be used.
But all 2-3 days builds with new features and apps and NO word about even using the phone basics.
ATM on BOTH devices only UB-Touch gives somewhat like an usability
RE: Frustration with development pace - User 18618 - 10-07-2020
As I understand it, all of the PinePhone specific development is done by volunteers. Instead of rubbishing how quickly those volunteers are progressing the software in their free time, you could contribute.