Discussion of Moving Production Outside of China

[kern707]

My perspective about this topic is a mix of both or all opinions.

I too, don't like everything that I buy here in Europe to be "made in china", not because I have anything against China or the Chinese people - but because I know, that the product that I hold in my hand, which has a logo of an over century old European brand on it, had moved production to China to make it cheaper for them to manufacture, to make them more profit without reducing the price to the consumer and by compromising the European craftsmanship and attention to details which is a fact in certain niches of products.

Some products that are made in china are just fine, and I don't care that they are made in China, it is also depends on what the manufacturer was demanding from the Chinese factory, since Many Chinese factories are capable of making high quality products, if they are told to (hence- also paid to!), I know as a matter of fact that some factories in China are using some very sophisticated, precise and expensive Swiss and German machinery - the problem is that most companies who decided to outsource their production out to China - did it solely to reduce their costs, and cared less about maintaining the quality of what their products meant to be for people over multiple generations.

I don't care about that non branded plastic "Selfie stick" that does a very simple task and costs next to nothing, I care about the once high-end European brand products being sold at record high prices while not retaining their "old" quality anymore because the manufacturer only demands lowering production costs, while products are still being marketed as if they were the "good old original products" which they certainly aren't anymore. that is a shame IMHO.

Some products are "meant" to be made in China for various of reasons, some other products I would prefer to buy a locally made one, like for an example- the American car manufacturers make few of the best pickup trucks in the world! even here in Europe I see many Dodge RAMs, no VW or Mercedes pickup truck can even touch that beast.. on the other hand Germany and Switzerland are hands down the world's top precision machinery manufacturers, just to mention two simple examples out of many.

[ryo]

Here in Japan a big portion of the products are made in China, although I see many newer products with a "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in Vietnam", "Made in Phillipines", "Made in India", "Made in Wario", and "Made in Abyss" recently.
Or even a mix of them, like a garake I have which says "Made in Japan" on the phone itself, and "Made in China" on its battery.

I saw videos about China implementing spy chips in products that are made there, and knowing the dangers of the CCP, I wouldn't be surprised if that's true.
From what I'm understanding, Pine products are made in Shengzen (mainland China) and Hong Kong (kind of mainland China since a half year ago).

[dgdimick]

Here in Japan a big portion of the products are made in China, although I see many newer products with a "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in Vietnam", "Made in Phillipines", "Made in India", "Made in Wario", and "Made in Abyss" recently.
Or even a mix of them, like a garake I have which says "Made in Japan" on the phone itself, and "Made in China" on its battery.

I saw videos about China implementing spy chips in products that are made there, and knowing the dangers of the CCP, I wouldn't be surprised if that's true.
From what I'm understanding, Pine products are made in Shengzen (mainland China) and Hong Kong (kind of mainland China since a half year ago).

The "spy chips" are a very real issues, it has lead to a number of products being banned from 3 letter agencies here in the US.

[KNERD]

Here in Japan a big portion of the products are made in China, although I see many newer products with a "Made in Japan", "Made in Taiwan", "Made in Vietnam", "Made in Phillipines", "Made in India", "Made in Wario", and "Made in Abyss" recently.
Or even a mix of them, like a garake I have which says "Made in Japan" on the phone itself, and "Made in China" on its battery.

I saw videos about China implementing spy chips in products that are made there, and knowing the dangers of the CCP, I wouldn't be surprised if that's true.
From what I'm understanding, Pine products are made in Shengzen (mainland China) and Hong Kong (kind of mainland China since a half year ago).

That is funny. I recall seeing an expose from the 90s about Japanese VCR manufacturing. It was discussing the use of robots in VCR factories in Japan.  They visited a factory there and said this factory was running 18 hours a day with few humans helping out. It was stated within a year or so, they expected the factory to be running 24 hours a day, and only 5 humans working at a time, just giving the robots more parts when needed

I guess humans turned out to be cheaper labor than robots.

[KC9UDX]

I work in a place like that.  A very famous, very American company that isn't known for it, but honestly could've taught Elon Musk a lot about automation.  I've worked in many such places.  I've never heard anyone say robots were cheaper.  They are safer, and sometimes more versatile.  The biggest advantage is that robots don't desire to lounge around in cubicles surfing the web and telling fart jokes for a living.

China has a problem that the "Western world" doesn't.  They actually have a surplus of workers.  And still they have solved unemployment.

[dgdimick]

I work in a place like that.  A very famous, very American company that isn't known for it, but honestly could've taught Elon Musk a lot about automation.  I've worked in many such places.  I've never heard anyone say robots were cheaper.  They are safer, and sometimes more versatile.  The biggest advantage is that robots don't desire to lounge around in cubicles surfing the web and telling fart jokes for a living.

China has a problem that the "Western world" doesn't.  They actually have a surplus of workers.  And still they have solved unemployment.

Sorry, but your information is 180 degrees from reality.

China has not solved their employment issues, they just claim they have solved them. I'd suggest you do some additional research, as well as investigate who owns or controls the sources you are using to gather your world view.

Just as China has made claims that they where not the "patient zero" of the Chinese Coronavirus, they are more then willing to be dishonest about other things.

A simple duckduckgo search will reveal a lot of insight.

[KC9UDX]

Actually going there and investigating is far better than an internet search, in my personal experience.

I know, people in the "Western world" will call it inhumane, but honestly this fits the ol' "shovel ready jobs" mantra.  China does not have an unemployment problem.

Unless you've actually been there, it's very hard to imagine what actually goes on there.  It's not safe to trust what you read about China.

[TRS-80]

Thank you KC9UDX for your reasonable, level-headed perspective which seems to be based on first-hand experience.  I personally have had just about enough of the Western legacy corporate media telling their subjects who and what to hate (and most of said subjects lapping it right up without question).  It's all so tiresome.

For instance, mining "rare" earth elements is really a high-cost, dirty process to obtain as is typical in the mining industry.

This is my understanding as well.  And yet look at the throw-away mentality business model of almost all companies nowadays (especially phones).  They want you to just be a good consoomer and buy a new device every X months/years (as their business model dictates) because batteries are not replaceable, and they totally control the locked down ecosystem and extensively modified, frozen in time, ancient Linux kernel your device runs on, etc...

Therefore it is very refreshing that you can get spare parts (including batteries!) for Pine products, as there are very few devices any more where this is still the case.  And the idea of using real, standard GNU/Linux as a platform (as opposed to Google Java VM nightmare knock-off) also only contributes to making long term usage scenarios even more viable (and that's before we've even gotten into the freedom/control aspects, which are yet another bonus).

In other words, the world is not a perfect place, but I think Pine are doing a great job of moving things forward where and how they can, and should be applauded for that.  It is this very realistic approach that I am coming to appreciate about the company more and more.

[dgdimick]

Actually going there and investigating is far better than an internet search, in my personal experience.

I know, people in the "Western world" will call it inhumane, but honestly this fits the ol' "shovel ready jobs" mantra.  China does not have an unemployment problem.

Unless you've actually been there, it's very hard to imagine what actually goes on there.  It's not safe to trust what you read about China.

I'd strongly suggest you watch so of the videos put out by some YouTube content creators that have lived there, and tried to work there as well. There are a few I watch that have lived there for a combined length of 24 years, and dealt with some of the major issues you seem to be unaware of.

China is not a good country, no matter what the people inside are trying to make of their own lives, the people are mostly good people, the CCP, not so much.

[KC9UDX]

For each one of them, I expect I could find one person wherever you go that has some kind of serious issue that "should" represent the whole country. It's popular to trash unpopular countries. No I'm not saying China is all that great, but not everything there is terrible. And it's a big place, with very different things going on in different places. Sooner or later there isn't going to be so much difference in those places or anywhere else, unfortunately.