I think you guys are overreacting. This isn't Android and Windows. It's GNU/Linux. It works with a lot older devices without issues, because we are not dependent on some company for updates. The modem and GPS will be just as bad on PinePhone Pro (it's the same modem) and we will still need responsive apps. Maybe at least this time convergence will work. I'm actually disappointed that there aren't more hardware changes like improving the SIM slot or the kill switches.
So really the only change in the new model is that things will run faster and we will be able to run more games.
Thank you, @ ivanB1975 .
From a quick listen I gather that this is just about speed issues. Unless the PPP delivers that speed with the same or better battery life I don't even consider it a serious competition for the PP.
Let's wait and see.
10-28-2021, 01:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-28-2021, 02:26 PM by ivanB1975.)
(10-28-2021, 07:19 AM)CharlieGordon Wrote: Thank you, @ivanB1975 .
From a quick listen I gather that this is just about speed issues. Unless the PPP delivers that speed with the same or better battery life I don't even consider it a serious competition for the PP.
Let's wait and see.
Yes the battery life probably is a big problem. Also for the normal pinephone is not yet perfect and I need to carry an additional battery pack.
(10-28-2021, 06:53 AM)beta-user Wrote: I think you guys are overreacting. This isn't Android and Windows. It's GNU/Linux. It works with a lot older devices without issues, because we are not dependent on some company for updates. The modem and GPS will be just as bad on PinePhone Pro (it's the same modem) and we will still need responsive apps. Maybe at least this time convergence will work. I'm actually disappointed that there aren't more hardware changes like improving the SIM slot or the kill switches.
So really the only change in the new model is that things will run faster and we will be able to run more games.
I partially agree with you. In fact, I have to say that when I first got the pinephone, I tried ubuntu touch. It is the best experience I ever had on the pp. Super smooth. Then at some point it got broken and I switched to Manjaro with posh. But I miss the super smooth experience of ubuntu touch. This to say that yes there is still a lot to improve, I agree with you.
I disagree when you guys tend to accept the way of behavior that here it is played. As I wrote before, I was sure I could constantly upgrade the main board but it is not the case. Probably we will still do that anyway. When they will place the new board on the website I will think about getting it.
(10-28-2021, 06:53 AM)beta-user Wrote: I think you guys are overreacting. This isn't Android and Windows. It's GNU/Linux. It works with a lot older devices without issues, because we are not dependent on some company for updates.
Good luck running KDE Plasma 5.whateverthecurrentminorreleasewasagain or Gnome 40 on a Intel Core 2 Duo laptop from 2010 (to make sure it's before the i3/i5/i7 era) lag-free.
Of course you can run the same distro on that machine without problems at all if you use i3 or IceWM (I did that with a laptop like that just a few days ago even), but the 2 most mainstream DE's (which you'd expect every single newcomer to use) will definitely be slow.
So no, it's not necessarily true that if it's Linux you can run the latest software on ancient hardware.
As for the update part, depends on the packages you've installed and the distro maintainer.
Manjaro is always a bit behind on Arch because they want to provide cutting edge software rather than bleeding edge, which is completely understandable from the perspective of an easy to use distro maintainer, but can also be a bit frustrating at times there's an urgent security patch.
I still remember the whole OpenSSL debacle a few years ago; Arch was already patched, Ubuntu was already patched, Debian was already patched, Fedora was already patched, but Manjaro decided to wait out a few days longer.
母語は日本語ですが、英語も喋れます（ｒｙ
10-29-2021, 08:46 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2021, 01:38 AM by Juergen.)
In my opinion, the more interesting part of this project is the software development and not the hardware. Weaker hardware needs more optimization than stronger hardware. Linux runs on older computers better than Windows ...
Linux on the pinephone has tons of optimization to be had still. For the sake of comparison, I tried GloDroid (Android) on the pinephone, and it runs blazing fast. Glo-Droid is in no way a stable release of its own, but I Installed Firefox, some electron apps and some emulators, and it blows the pants off the equivalent apps on Manjaro or Mobian.
The Pinephone Pro will be able to play more graphically intensive games and such, but 85% of the issues the non-pro model are facing are absolutely software issues that the Pro version will face as well (just with more muscle to hide it). They can and will improve with time.
I don't see why they would offer a discount to upgrade from the current pinephone when there's nothing wrong with it and its not abandoned. The previous mainboard discount was because of hardware revisions. If they do, then great; maybe sign me up. But in their shoes I wouldn't feel its necessary.
(10-29-2021, 02:32 PM)gamerminstrel Wrote: Glo-Droid is in no way a stable release of its own, but I Installed Firefox, some electron apps and some emulators, and it blows the pants off the equivalent apps on Manjaro or Mobian.
Just saying, but Electron is only on desktop.
You might be looking at frameworks like React Native in the case of Android and iOS.
母語は日本語ですが、英語も喋れます（ｒｙ
(10-28-2021, 01:59 PM)ivanB1975 Wrote: I disagree when you guys tend to accept the way of behavior that here it is played. As I wrote before, I was sure I could constantly upgrade the main board but it is not the case. Probably we will still do that anyway. When they will place the new board on the website I will think about getting it.
That's a valid point, but I see it as a separate issue. If they promised upgradability they shouldn't now pretend that they haven't.
(10-29-2021, 05:34 AM)ryo Wrote: Good luck running KDE Plasma 5.whateverthecurrentminorreleasewasagain or Gnome 40 on a Intel Core 2 Duo laptop from 2010 (to make sure it's before the i3/i5/i7 era) lag-free.
I have a laptop like that, but it's running a little older KDE, because it's on Debian 9 and I haven't updated it in a while.
(10-29-2021, 05:34 AM)ryo Wrote: So no, it's not necessarily true that if it's Linux you can run the latest software on ancient hardware.
I never said you can run the latest software. Software keeps getting more complicated, so at some point you have to upgrade your hardware or run something more lightweight. But progress is always a good thing and with GNU/Linux we can at least still use those old devices and get newest security patches, which isn't usually the case on other operating systems.
(10-30-2021, 09:08 AM)beta-user Wrote: I never said you can run the latest software. Software keeps getting more complicated, so at some point you have to upgrade your hardware or run something more lightweight. yup.
(10-30-2021, 09:08 AM)beta-user Wrote: But progress is always a good thing and with GNU/Linux we can at least still use those old devices and get newest security patches, which isn't usually the case on other operating systems. Progress depends on which progress, because it's far from always a good thing.
Progress can be made to make software better, but it could also be made to make software worse.
Like the whole package manager thing I recently mentioned.
What's wrong with the native package manager of whatever distribution you're using?
Why do we need to slap Flatpack, Snaps, Steam (if you count that as a package manager that is), pip (can be used to install full software), npm (likewise, can be used to install full software) etc?
At that point you're only making progress towards a more complicated and more buggy experience.
And then there's chat apps.
Remember when everyone was on either XMPP or ICQ or MSN or Yahoo Messenger?
Then all of the sudden the MSN and Yahoo users moved to Skype, which got bought by Microsoft, who progressed it into implementing spyware all over the place and effectively destroyed the project.
Then Discord became the superior platform over Skype, until it progressed to become even more of a spyware than Skype, so now people are again seggregating into either Matrix or Rocket.chat or yet another Electron app (all the new platforms since Discord are Electron sadly) of which I forgot the name of which at this moment seem to be progressing into the right direction at least.
母語は日本語ですが、英語も喋れます（ｒｙ
(10-29-2021, 02:32 PM)gamerminstrel Wrote: Linux on the pinephone has tons of optimization to be had still. For the sake of comparison, I tried GloDroid (Android) on the pinephone, and it runs blazing fast. Glo-Droid is in no way a stable release of its own, but I Installed Firefox, some electron apps and some emulators, and it blows the pants off the equivalent apps on Manjaro or Mobian.
The Pinephone Pro will be able to play more graphically intensive games and such, but 85% of the issues the non-pro model are facing are absolutely software issues that the Pro version will face as well (just with more muscle to hide it). They can and will improve with time.
I don't see why they would offer a discount to upgrade from the current pinephone when there's nothing wrong with it and its not abandoned. The previous mainboard discount was because of hardware revisions. If they do, then great; maybe sign me up. But in their shoes I wouldn't feel its necessary.
This let some hope that the actual devices we own will be used at full at some point.
I still disagree on the fact the actual pinephone is not anymore upgradable.
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