Rock64 NAS project
#1
Heart 
Hi,

I'm about to order the Rock64 for a NAS project.
I'm going to build the Rock64 inside a 4bay case (like Chenbro SR30169 or similar).
I made a schematic how I thought to build it.
Code:
Because I'm going to use the nas most of all for internal file transfer (SAMBA) I really wanted to integrate GigaEthernet.
But I'm not sure to place the GigaEthernet adapter on a USB3.0 or USB2.0 port (and dedicate the USB3.0 port only for the USB3.0-->SATA)

*****The ethernet port on the Rock64 is already a Gigabit port ... :D
[Image: 8TdCzq.png]

*Edit 15-09*
After knowing i don't need a GigabitEthernet adapter i have redisgn my model :
[Image: PQeIxw.png]
for the USB3.0 to SATA (RAID) i'm thinking about this one : Oodelay USB 3.0 & eSATA 6Gb to x2 SATA 6Gbs RAID 0/1/JBOD Bridge Board (UB203RM)
for the USB2.0 to sata  i'm thinking about this one : USB to IDE SATA 2.5 3.5 Hard Disk HDD Cable Converter LW
Wire'ing is no problem since i'm an elektrician Smile

Hoop to hear your guys advice en tips Smile
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#2
Problem is the USB speeds.

Usb2.0 is a raw 480 megabits per second whilst HDD can approach 100MB/s>

Gig eth can only go on USB 3.0 so you are starting to flood that bandwidth.

You would be better hanging off a USB 3.0 4 bay RAID unit off the USB 3.0 and maybe port aggregate to approx 1.5GB's with a USB 3.0 ethernet.

Reading the Armbian guys who are very OMV (open media vault) orientated it would seem Raid over USB separate drives is not a good idea.
It will work but before you get there you have to think about the USB ports max raw bandwidth then deduct overhead and look at what you can place on it.

After trying to argue with the Armbian guys a few times I am sort of also realizing its mainly a single disk system but must admit the arguments of USB connectors not being good enough is a little contrite but gave in.

To be honest I think the centralised NAS architecture might well be slowly replaced as new form of decentralized hardware at a bang/buck ration never seen before start to employ newer distributed storage technologies that are under heavy development.

https://lizardfs.com/
http://ceph.com/
http://www.xtreemfs.org/

Most direction is aimed at data-centers but with cost levels and the ever increasing capabilities of these boards in terms of network & disk i/o I think we might see private lan distributed storage.
Been reading about it for some time Lizardfs is in the debian Repo's but still have to get my rock to try.

You don't need a NAS when each device can have local storage that adds to a decentralised storage pool via a p2p FS.
Each media, alexa, kodi, router, web server has Sd & Emmc and can allow HDD & SSD be added to the overall mesh storage pool.
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#3
Can't speak to the usb2.0 vs. usb3.0 vs RAID but I agree that although it's a great project would it be easier, cheaper, to just attach an External USB3.0 drive to the Rock64? I have one attached to my router's USB3.0 port and use it to backup movies/music/ebooks to it via SyncBackPro from other PCs on the home network. Works like a champ. Also, if there's ever a need to grab it in case of catastrophe, it's on the main floor so easy to yank when we run out of the house.  Big Grin 8 TB wasn't very expensive, already had the router.
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#4
I would be interested to see how you go and get some iperf data on here with the Rock64. https://iperf.fr/

These have 12v input for 3.5" £10 4 or 2?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inateck-Adapter...B074M1G9KD

Dunno if you are going to go Jbod, RAID0, 1 or 10 (5 is sort of not good anymore)
Raid10 obviously 4 disk.

With 2 then these are only £30 https://www.amazon.co.uk/HDD-USB-RAID-En...B071HQXGWH

With 4 then seen them for about £150 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B009O73WA0

With USB2.0 you are going to bottleneck practically any single disk.

But you could squeeze a Gig ethernet and either a RAID unit or the above singular adapters on the USB3.0.
Its extremely tight as near the max of 5Gb/s with 4 disks.
I am not sure how those cheap RAID controllers work and if they will offload the mirroring and striping needs.

*When you do port aggregation with a managed switch from memory you only get 50% effective so 2 gig ethernet is 1.5Gbs 3 would give you 2Gbs.*
Ps the port trunking via LACP seems to be better than my last implementation so yeah it could serve 2 x 1gbs to 2 clients.
Not sure what I used last time but 802.3ad via LACP looks much better.

Even switches with LACP are very cheap now £60 https://www.amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-GS108T-...B000RAILSQ

PSU for 4 adapters £10 https://www.amazon.co.uk/GEREE-Converter...B06XG96WF2

Iperf is a great tool for benchmarking all this.
https://iperf.fr/

Give it a go and post some results but the USB2.0 will just bottleneck just about everything.
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#5
I just found out that I miss read an article ... The Ethernet port on the Rock64 is already a GigabitEthernet port so no need to convert from USB Big Grin that makes its a lot easier Big Grin
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#6
Don't do RAID over USB3 hub, it will break, and very baddly Smile Use only proven to work SATA-to-USB adapter, that has UASP support, as this gives a good performance.

There's a very good and long thread from tkaiser on Armbian forum where he describes SATA bridges, NAS solutions, and Rock64 performance numbers and he has good explanations what setups will work correctly.
Homepage: https://ayufan.eu

Releases:
Rock/Pro 64/Pinebook Pro: LinuxChromium OS
So/Pine A64/Pinebook: LinuxAndroid 6.0Android 7.1

Buy me a Beer
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#7
(09-20-2017, 09:08 AM)ayufan Wrote: Don't do RAID over USB3 hub, it will break, and very baddly Smile Use only proven to work SATA-to-USB adapter, that has UASP support, as this gives a good performance.

There's a very good and long thread from tkaiser on Armbian forum where he describes SATA bridges, NAS solutions, and Rock64 performance numbers and he has good explanations what setups will work correctly.

I have to disagree and not because it will not break, as it prob will but for the lack of reasons to why it should.

Much is to do with power & connectors and with the kernel we have and some quirks on cheap silicon.
UASP is transparent across a hub so all a hub does is increase cable length and connector count if its a decent hub with a good chip.
Many of the problems are how host port stacks are implemented on the motherboard and not all are the same.
Kernel 4.4 is the current image 4.6 = USB 3.1 prob really with images we should already be backporting kernel 4.9 as we have hardware that is further forward than the 4.4 mainline kernel we are currently employing.

tkaiser rightly highlights some bad chips and implementations that also have been used on some SoCs and are just plain bad and this is where I disagree as what is the good?
Are people suggesting that every RAID multibay enclosure / adapter on the market is bad from a whole range of big name manufacturers?

What is the good and if bad why exactly as "it will break baddly" doesn't really convey enough infomation.
This is an avenue to explore and if we do get some answers to maybe latency is a factor then maybe alternatives such as SnapRaid, SyncThing or completely lateral implementations of distributed file stores.

If its cabling and power what can we do to improve this, which chips should you dodge, if kernel can we backport, blacklist or remove from blacklist.

We need that info and I will be one trying certain implementations and posting findings as we are getting to a stage where some form of combination should work.
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#8
Thx all for the advice.

About the hardware RAID, I'm not really sure if I'm going to this because I want to keep it more a low-budget project :-D

At first, I will test the ROCK64 only with 1HDD connected to USB 3.0 with a Sharkoon SATA QuickPort XT USB 3.0 ( LINK ) (USAP support),
for later on I'm thinking about adding the second HDD also to a QuickPort XT and use the powered USB 3.0 hub.
And let these to sync with RYSNC?

For now, i'm waiting for my ROCK64 to come in Big Grin, I also ordered a case :
[Image: 2000864782.jpeg] ( LINK )

The NAS part of the project will be most for my picture and family movies collection.
Also, i want to use the ROCK64 as a torrent server, a GIT server and as an apache tomcat server.
I will install OMV Smile

I'll keep you guys updated when I receive my ROCK Big Grin
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#9
(09-21-2017, 06:46 AM)mikedhoore Wrote: Thx all for the advice.

About the hardware RAID, I'm not really sure if I'm going to this because I want to keep it more a low-budget project :-D

At first, I will test the ROCK64 only with 1HDD connected to USB 3.0 with a Sharkoon SATA QuickPort XT USB 3.0 ( LINK ) (USAP support),
for later on I'm thinking about adding the second HDD also to a QuickPort XT and use the powered USB 3.0 hub.
And let these to sync with RYSNC?

For now, i'm waiting for my ROCK64 to come in Big Grin, I also ordered a case :
[Image: 2000864782.jpeg] ( LINK )

The NAS part of the project will be most for my picture and family movies collection.
Also, i want to use the ROCK64 as a torrent server, a GIT server and as an apache tomcat server.
I will install OMV Smile

I'll keep you guys updated when I receive my ROCK Big Grin

Sharkoon SATA QuickPort XT is a Jmicron JMS567 which I think is ok.
rsync should be fine but give raid0/1 a go and see how it goes.
Prob will break but post findings with multiple JMS567

(09-21-2017, 06:46 AM)mikedhoore Wrote: Thx all for the advice.

About the hardware RAID, I'm not really sure if I'm going to this because I want to keep it more a low-budget project :-D

At first, I will test the ROCK64 only with 1HDD connected to USB 3.0 with a Sharkoon SATA QuickPort XT USB 3.0 ( LINK ) (USAP support),
for later on I'm thinking about adding the second HDD also to a QuickPort XT and use the powered USB 3.0 hub.
And let these to sync with RYSNC?

For now, i'm waiting for my ROCK64 to come in Big Grin, I also ordered a case :
[Image: 2000864782.jpeg] ( LINK )

The NAS part of the project will be most for my picture and family movies collection.
Also, i want to use the ROCK64 as a torrent server, a GIT server and as an apache tomcat server.
I will install OMV Smile

I'll keep you guys updated when I receive my ROCK Big Grin

Sharkoon SATA QuickPort XT is a Jmicron JMS567 which I think is ok.
rsync should be fine but give raid0/1 a go and see how it goes.
Prob will break but post findings with multiple JMS567
  Reply
#10
(09-21-2017, 07:25 AM)stuartiannaylor Wrote:
(09-21-2017, 06:46 AM)mikedhoore Wrote: Thx all for the advice.

About the hardw...

Sharkoon SATA QuickPort XT is a Jmicron JMS567 which I think is ok.
rsync should be fine but give raid0/1 a go and see how it goes.
Prob will break but post findings with multiple JMS567
My first reason to use the QuickPort XT is that I have one at home :-p 
When I'm done "testing" the rock64 I will buy 1 or 2 USB3.0 -> SATA600 for the final setup Wink
So is there any other USB3.0->SATA600 adapter that your advice? whit a better chip than the JMicron JMS567?
  Reply


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