Windows 10???
#1
Does anyone know if the Pine64 is on the list of the supported ARM CPU's reportedly supported in the upcoming Windows 10 release?
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#2
Last I heard only Qualcomm’s SoC's were getting support, not that I followed this much as it is of no interest to me personally. I doubt Allwinner SoCs are high on the list ...
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#3
For me it is of a great interest, I always said if MS released Windows for arm as an open platform as with x86, it would be a bomb. Arm finally could enter a real competition with Intel. Not a locked down and sythetically limited version, but full and open for development, - drivers, applications... I am too busy to follow things. :/ The arm ecosystem is too undeveloped now, there is no standard firmware on it, no ACPI out there for now, it would be not easy to get it on every board as with myriads of x86 motherboards. Things are changing and sooner or later it will be that. So even if Allwinner chips will not be the first getting support. they will get it anyway. With an open for development Windows, it would be more up to Allwinner (Rockchip, Amlogic) in fact.
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#4
(08-27-2017, 06:06 AM)z4v4l Wrote: For me it is of a great interest, I always said if MS released Windows for arm as an open platform as with x86, it would be a bomb. Arm finally could enter a real competition with Intel. <snip>

I disagree.  Arm and Intel serve two completely different markets , and have two completely different purposes.

Microsoft and the "Windows" brand are becoming irrelevant, generally.  This is no more true than in the embedded world of Arm.  Redmond doesn't control Arm;  Arm controls Arm.  The difference is that Windows is a platform ; Arm is a specification which is implemented by a plethora of vendors.  To fully understand Arm, you need to unlearn almost everything you think you understand about personal computers!  

Arm is not in competition with Intel;  in fact, Arm does not compete as such.  PC(s) are finally going the way of the typewriter. What we think of as a personal computer has morphed into embedded mobile devices which the PC market place, locked down my Redmond, did not anticipate ( at least not soon enough ).

Nobody really thought about a time when ( generally ) people would not turn on PC(s) any longer;  but would rely on embedded systems and tiny mobile devices;  for some of us ( who still need a full sized keyboard and a very large screen ) the embedded world is able to fill the need quite well indeed.  I still have a large screen on my desk, and a full sized keyboard,  but a tiny SBC drives all of it!

I'm even using my notebooks ( mostly x86 ) less ;  large clunky heavy devices that get hot and have only 1.5-2.0 hours of batt life if I'm lucky.  My least expensive one was $400 usd.  I'm now using a $99 dollar notebook driven by Arm ( Allwinner SoC ) which in contrast is very lite weight, runs cool, and at last cycle got 9.3 hours on one battery charge !

And did I mention the silly thing is fast;  I mean really, screaming fast.

Heart   Arm
marcushh777    Cool

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#5
Desktops will never disappear, large screens with keyboards or whatever input devices - this is all dictated by humans' "form-factor". Arm couldn't suggest an alternative for x86 here, since there was no Windows on it yet (despite MS has arm NT for long time). If MS lets Windows on arm the same way as it is for long time on x86, ARM laptopts, desktops will happen. for real. they will become common. Without Windows it's just impossible.
These tiny arm boards are PCs too. And the most thing arm PCs lack is Windows. Wink This truth doesn't depend on someone's preferences.
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#6
(08-27-2017, 08:51 AM)z4v4l Wrote: Desktops will never disappear, large screens with keyboards or whatever input devices - this is all dictated by humans' "form-factor". Arm couldn't suggest an alternative for x86 here, since there was no Windows on it yet (despite MS has arm NT for long time). If MS lets Windows on arm the same way as it is for long time on x86, ARM laptopts, desktops will happen. for real. they will become common. Without Windows it's just impossible.
These tiny arm boards are PCs too. And the most thing arm PCs lack is Windows. Wink This truth doesn't depend on someone's preferences.


Did you even look at the link I showed you?   There are currently 100 billion Arm processors in the wild today;  and none of them depend on Windows.

Microsoft Windows is going to go the way of the IBM 360, and the Remington typewriter;  completely irrelevant today;  holding on by only momentum -- but definitely in the death throws.
marcushh777    Cool

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#7
(08-27-2017, 09:07 AM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote:
(08-27-2017, 08:51 AM)z4v4l Wrote: Desktops will never disappear, large screens with keyboards or whatever input devices - this is all dictated by humans' "form-factor". Arm couldn't suggest an alternative for x86 here, since there was no Windows on it yet (despite MS has arm NT for long time). If MS lets Windows on arm the same way as it is for long time on x86, ARM laptopts, desktops will happen. for real. they will become common. Without Windows it's just impossible.
These tiny arm boards are PCs too. And the most thing arm PCs lack is Windows. Wink This truth doesn't depend on someone's preferences.


Did you even look at the link I showed you?   There are currently 100 billion Arm processors in the wild today;  and none of them depend on Windows.

Microsoft Windows is going to go the way of the IBM 360, and the Remington typewriter;  completely irrelevant today;  holding on by only momentum -- but definitely in the death throws.
microsoft also seems to be holding off on implementing the windows as a service model mostly i would guess because of as you mention windows becoming a continuously less popular choice. providing windows as a service, which would require a subscription, causes an acceleration of the trend.  i think both windows & linux/unix/bsd all miss the mark as relates to maintenance costs though. as in, which software is less expensive to maintain? leaving hardware costs aside, which o/s choice is the less expensive? considering many large scale corporations still run windows xp a significant group of u.s. business sees little benefit in upgrading
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#8
(08-27-2017, 09:07 AM)MarkHaysHarris777 Wrote: Did you even look at the link I showed you?   There are currently 100 billion Arm processors in the wild today;  and none of them depend on Windows.

Microsoft Windows is going to go the way of the IBM 360, and the Remington typewriter;  completely irrelevant today;  holding on by only momentum -- but definitely in the death throws.
and how many of those billions are desktop cpus? maybe you don't use desktop, that is not the case for hundreds of millions of people doing their job on desktops and using them at home too. what really is irrelevant are those fairy tales from google telling BS about using tablets everywhere instead of desktop PCs. I would be glad if google or anyone talking this crap really were forced to use their shitty tablets for doing their job. Like if you are jabbering about this all the time, do it. let google do their "tensor flow thingy" on tablets. Big Grin Aside of the "cloudy" marketing bullshit, in reality, people use PCs and will be doing so for a feasible future. If cars will be flying in the future, they still are cars. Flying ones. PCs get miniaturized, fan-less, a lot of modernizing, but remain what they were in the past, - the closest and most important computing device for a human. Arm is almost non-existent on the desktop/server PC range. Which is the ultimate market for any vendor. I don't know why. Maybe because it's still more profitable, than with those "billions" devices where nobody cares what's there? Or because it's a much more general, universal, capable, complex platform than tablets, phones or anything with the narrow application. People tend to spend more time with it and it's "closer" to them. More intimate, don't know how to say that. As a result, people care more about what's inside of their PC than what's inside of their home router or camera. And thus this market is the most attractive for CPU vendors. I guess arm wants to get on desktop and server. Why it is almost non-existent there? As a partial reason it's because arm sucks yet at performance compared to x86, but it is power-efficient, more "green" so to say, which is good and not everyone needs an ultra-speed desktop for their use. The main reason why arm is not existent on desktop is absence of a normal desktop OS on it. "normal desktop OS" is an euphemism for "Windows". Wink You don't like this fact? It's ok, you can play with linux. But millions of people need the "normal OS". Big Grin
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#9
Take a gander at this article :

That is a sample ( above );  there are lots of studies that indicate ( as above ) that PC sales continue to drop and that PC(s) continue to be on a steady decline world-wide;

I use a full sized keyboard every day, and a large screen too ( three of them ) but they are all SBC ( Arm ) driven ( RPi , PineA64, and Rock64 ).  I donated all of my PC towers ( still have two museum pieces ).  Still have two notebooks;  seldom use them ( x86 ) but am using the Pinebook  ( Arm ) notebook everyday.  

Of course I've not used Windows of any flavor since 1998 ( professionally and personally ).
marcushh777    Cool

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#10
sales decline. of course they cannot always grow. it's saturation. i understand PC vendors want them to always grow, but I don't understand how they could not see it cannot always grow. For example I am using PC with CPU from 2002! xD I am not going to buy a new PC every year. This doesn't mean I am not sitting in front of a PC like ~10 hours everyday. Big Grin this decline of sales is a sign of market saturation and not even close to "PC disappearance".
Quote:I use a full sized keyboard every day, and a large screen too ( three of them ) but they are all SBC ( Arm ) driven ( RPi , PineA64, and Rock64 ).
that's it. you still use PCs. Smile these tiny arm boards are mini-PCs and I love their power efficiency, I am dreaming of desktops fully fanless in the future.
So no, PCs don't disappear, and my point was that Windows support for arm would make the latter a way into this sub-range - little fanless power efficient PCs. The next generation of Pinebook would be "just an ordinary laptop", which would mean its sale numbers would be several magnitudes larger than nowadays.
Quote:Of course I've not used Windows of any flavor since 1998 ( professionally and personally ).
That's hardcore. I am opposite - Windows is my favorite OS. Because of it I got to love system programming and now am messing around these SBCs trying to create UEFI for them. Big Grin
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