Suggestion: PineTV
#1
Apologies if this is the wrong place for suggestions, or if this has been suggested prior (did not see any results when searching).

With Smart TVs being increasingly problematic in regards to privacy, and with "Dumb TVs" becoming less and less available (and the ones that are available are questionable quality), I think a PineTV would be a great product to consider creating in the future.

I think a basic 4k tv with a few hdmi ports, a few USB ports, and a coax for antenna would be sufficient. For "smart" features I think Kodi integration would be ideal.

I imagine shipping logistics would be the trickiest part (I know TV shipping is problematic for larger companies due to risk of breakage, so Pine may be more at risk of this).

Thank you for considering

-Stickman
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#2
I think a smart TV STICK can be a simple option.

This could be any SBC in a stick format with USB power and HDMI plug (like a chhromcast dongle, firestick, apple TV or mi stick).
If it could boot from uSD it would be briliant. Or have a ethernet beisdes wifi.
I would use it a s media player with kodi /libreelec to content on the NAS.
This would make a smart TV from any HDMI monitor.

To keep dreaming:
- bluetooth receiving to use the TV as player, and bleutooth sending to allow wireless headsets.
- some for of casting (google or apple) (vnc?) to allow remote displaying content (prefereably video content).
- option for some kind of remote control (IR, BLuetooth, Wifi app).
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#3
(12-30-2021, 02:21 AM)pljanson Wrote: I think a smart TV STICK can be a simple option.

This could be any SBC in a stick format with USB power and HDMI plug (like a chhromcast dongle, firestick, apple TV or mi stick).
If it could boot from uSD it would be briliant. Or have a ethernet beisdes wifi.
I would use it a s media player with kodi /libreelec to content on the NAS.
This would make a smart TV from any HDMI monitor.

To keep dreaming:
- bluetooth receiving to use the TV as player, and bleutooth sending to allow wireless headsets.
- some for of casting (google or apple) (vnc?) to allow remote displaying content (prefereably video content).
- option for some kind of remote control (IR, BLuetooth, Wifi app).

I also think a stick would be a simpler option that might be significantly more viable for Pine to pursue.

However part of my inspiration for this suggestion was the lack of affordable "dumb displays"; monitors being significantly more expensive than a TV, and all decent quality TVs having questionable software (even if you just have to experience it upon booting up the TV before switching over to the "PineTV Stick").

Having the software be integrated into the TV itself would be, IMO, a much more desirable product if the challenges involved could be overcome.
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#4
There are some "smart" TVs like Vizio's that like to take snapshots of whatever's on the screen and send it home. Granted, you can opt out of it, but the software tries really hard to get you to consent to it, and unless you have a habit of reading all small print it's easy to miss what that consent implies. So I'd say there is a real privacy value in large 4K screens that are either as "dumb" as possible, or are "smart" but running software as free as possible with zero telemetry demanded. Mere smart-TV HDMI compute stick won't help much in this regard if it's connected to a Vizio TV that still takes screen snapshots and shares with the company whatever it is you're sending to your TV over HDMI.
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#5
(12-31-2021, 05:26 PM)moonwalkers Wrote: There are some "smart" TVs like Vizio's that like to take snapshots of whatever's on the screen and send it home. Granted, you can opt out of it, but the software tries really hard to get you to consent to it, and unless you have a habit of reading all small print it's easy to miss what that consent implies. So I'd say there is a real privacy value in large 4K screens that are either as "dumb" as possible, or are "smart" but running software as free as possible with zero telemetry demanded. Mere smart-TV HDMI compute stick won't help much in this regard if it's connected to a Vizio TV that still takes screen snapshots and shares with the company whatever it is you're sending to your TV over HDMI.

This matches my sentiments, and I think you expressed it better than I did.
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#6
(12-31-2021, 05:26 PM)moonwalkers Wrote: There are some "smart" TVs like Vizio's that like to take snapshots of whatever's on the screen and send it home. Granted, you can opt out of it, but the software tries really hard to get you to consent to it, and unless you have a habit of reading all small print it's easy to miss what that consent implies. So I'd say there is a real privacy value in large 4K screens that are either as "dumb" as possible, or are "smart" but running software as free as possible with zero telemetry demanded. Mere smart-TV HDMI compute stick won't help much in this regard if it's connected to a Vizio TV that still takes screen snapshots and shares with the company whatever it is you're sending to your TV over HDMI.

Does this mean that you can only use those Vizio TVs when you setup internet on those TVs?
Otherwise I don't understand how they can still use telemetry.
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#7
(01-02-2022, 04:36 PM)jiyong Wrote:
(12-31-2021, 05:26 PM)moonwalkers Wrote: There are some "smart" TVs like Vizio's that like to take snapshots of whatever's on the screen and send it home. Granted, you can opt out of it, but the software tries really hard to get you to consent to it, and unless you have a habit of reading all small print it's easy to miss what that consent implies. So I'd say there is a real privacy value in large 4K screens that are either as "dumb" as possible, or are "smart" but running software as free as possible with zero telemetry demanded. Mere smart-TV HDMI compute stick won't help much in this regard if it's connected to a Vizio TV that still takes screen snapshots and shares with the company whatever it is you're sending to your TV over HDMI.

Does this mean that you can only use those Vizio TVs when you setup internet on those TVs?
Otherwise I don't understand how they can still use telemetry.

Technically, you can use them without being connected to Internet. In practice, they are a nightmare to use that way. Beginning with the fact that they (at least the cheaper models) have problems with the hardware remotes having tendency to "double-click" all the time, and to use software remote you have to have it connected to your network. They (at least the model I have) tend to always start to their home screen, even if they were turned of on one of the HDMI/composite inputs, and the physical buttons on the TV itself are completely unusable (as in don't do what they are supposed to do). If you ever want to make use of miracasting functionality you also need them connected to your network. I suppose if you only ever use it as an HDMI monitor the only one that's still problematic is its inability to start where it was left off, on HDMI input... Still, all those "smart" functions tend to get in the way of the "dumb monitor" use if you don't take advantage of them.
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#8
I have also had issues with Smart TVs that are not connected to the internet being extremely slow; my assumption being that they still attempt to load the smart features, and it takes a bit of time for them to timeout.
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#9
(01-03-2022, 11:57 AM)Stickman Wrote: I have also had issues with Smart TVs that are not connected to the internet being extremely slow; my assumption being that they still attempt to load the smart features, and it takes a bit of time for them to timeout.

I have seen that in other, non-TV cases. And I agree with that likely being the cause.

As a work around, it may be possible to install a firewall rule that that detects some of those attempted connections and sends a TCP reset. Or perhaps a DNS response as localhost. But, that does require the TV be connected to the network... scary that the TV might attempt to connect to other resources you have on the network, like SMB shares, LDAP, media shares, etc... so being as paranoid as I am, I'd give such a TV it's own network port on my firewall.


Note that one reason why TVs can be cheaper than "dumb" monitors, is that they CAN sell ads, telemetry and such. (Not just the volume.) You can see this in the Roku streaming players, as they now have ads on the home screen. At least they are not animated.
--
Arwen Evenstar
Princess of Rivendale
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#10
I like the idea of a smart TV stick.
it would bring more life to older TV's and give one control over what the TV does.
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