Yet another Epic Pine Store fail

[lot378]

Well, the total is more than $50 so it is taxable - the rate appears in Mexico to be 16% so at least $10.20 was due on $65. As for the rest there is a fee being added on for whatever reason (it doesn't seem DHL's remote area fee is applicable because that's more than $30). I don't think it's any different in Mexico - the shipping cost is also taxable if the total cost exceeded $50 as it did in this case.

There was no error on Pine64's end.

From Pine64's shipping policy:

Shipping cost doesn’t include import duty and tax. Customers will have to pay Import duties & VAT if applicable. Package will be discarded and non-refundable if customers refuse to pay import duty and tax.

You could have chosen the less expensive delivery option, it's slower but might've put the total under $50.

And I don't think Paypal will help you.

I completely understand the bitterness you feel -- import duty/tax always catches people out until they expect what will happen.

I expect the denial will possibly continue tho.

[KNERD]

Well, the total is more than $50 so it is taxable - the rate appears in Mexico to be 16% so at least $10.20 was due on $65. As for the rest there is a fee being added on for whatever reason (it doesn't seem DHL's remote area fee is applicable because that's more than $30). I don't think it's any different in Mexico - the shipping cost is also taxable if the total cost exceeded $50 as it did in this case.

There was no error on Pine64's end.

From Pine64's shipping policy:

Shipping cost doesn’t include import duty and tax. Customers will have to pay Import duties & VAT if applicable. Package will be discarded and non-refundable if customers refuse to pay import duty and tax.

You could have chosen the less expensive delivery option, it's slower but might've put the total under $50.

And I don't think Paypal will help you.

I completely understand the bitterness you feel -- import duty/tax always catches people out until they expect what will happen.

I expect the denial will possibly continue tho.

Have you not been reading the thread? The TOTAL is $30 USD, and that is why I chose DHL. Taxes are added to any item with a declared value of more than $50 USD. Shipping and any other taxes you have have paid are NOT included. Dang, man, I even included a link to the law where it states "value of the merchandise," not total paid.

I received two packages that day, both from Shenzen. For both I paid the $35 shipping. For the other I paid $35 USD for it.  They hand it to me, and then say I have to pay this grand amount of tax plus collection fee from $65 USD that was incorrectly declared from Pinestore.

Yeah, I also expect the denial of error PineStore made will continue.

---

Is it stuck because someone is waiting for you to pay the import duty/fees?

I ask because, I'm not exactly made of money; but to get this squared away I'll gladly pay it.  Why?  Because I do understand what it's like to be a shoestring company trying to help the community, and I feel I get more value out of the products than what I've paid for them; so I don't have a problem paying more to help Pine64.  Because I do understand your predicament, and I've been burned in such situations in the past; so I'd do what I can to help, and to prevent you and tllim escalating further into a situation that it going to be bad for you, for Pine64, and for frankly all the rest of us in the community.

Of course, if the fact that it's sitting somewhere is causing more fees to be incurred, I'd have to take that into consideration, too.

Here is the tracking info.

https://www.dhl.com/en/express/tracking....&brand=DHL

Last it shows is:  Shipment on hold


I am sure the the PineStore could call up DHL and possibly fix it, and say an error was made, but no response.
Yes, I have been burned before by crazy taxes and fees before, so I make sure anything sent by commercial carrier to me here has a value of less than $50. Anything else, I will have it sent to another address were I can avoid all those fees.

[kqlnut]

Most countries, including Mexico, calculate import duty/tax upon CIF value which includes shipping. But many countries have a threshold on imported goods under which no fees are applied. That threshold varies a lot from country to country and from fee to fee and is often based on FOB value (shipping exclueded) as is the case in Mexico. In Mexico apparently you don't have to pay VAT if the FOB value doesn't exceed US$50.

So yeah, Pine64 should have probably declared product value und shipping costs separately (I don't know how that actually works), but this whole thing is a bureaucratic jungle and I strongly believe there is no intended harm done here. I'm sure Pine64 can be convinced by the facts that this was an honest mistake which should be sorted out for the benefit of this case and themselves for the future shipping process. I generally believe a company that ships internationally should have this kind of thing sorted out, but as has been pointed out before, Pine64 really makes the impression of trying to make good things available to a community in a very affordable way where other companies probably wouldn't step in because it's not a viable business model. Having everything sorted out perfectly costs money, a lot probably, and for what Pine64 is doing I'm gladly willing to accept the rough edges (which I hope can be smoothened out by direct communication–this seems to be possible here at least to some degree, considering @tllim and others are taking part here). Of course this cannot be put in a contract or anything and it is your right as a customer to have delivered what you paid for, but being open to accepting some inconveniences and having some patience for a more humanitarian take and some greater goals would make so many things so much better (generally speaking). So i'm very happy to see this community is trying to achieve more and willing to help out in so many ways!

[lot378]

No, the total value of the merchandise is $65.

Shipping is part of the total value of the merchandise unless the import was a service.

Import duty/taxes apply to goods AND services - the shipping was a service.

A = goods value, B = shipping value. A + B = Sub total 1.
If sub total 1 > allowance ($50) then continue, otherwise can stop now as no duty/tax is applicable.
Sub total 2 = sub total 1 with duty added (think it's 0%?)
Sub total 3 = sub total 2 with tax applied (16%)
Total amount due = (sub total 3 - sub total 1) + handling fees

The mistake being made was imagining shipping doesn't form part of the total value of merchandise - the exception is when the goods are actually services then the transportation cost component is not due duty or tax. Yes, I've read the whole thread although what you thought didn't help to make any sense of the situation. The CN22 isn't obvious as it's not on the package for DHL shipments but internally somewhere value of goods and shipping would've been itemised for the total. Plus there is often no rhyme or reason to duty/tax being applied -- when you think it ought to be applied, it isn't and vice versa. Stuff can be waived through for whatever reason without duty/tax being applied. In any case it's always better to settle first then disagree later and reclaim fees if they were really incorrect.

When I'm expecting something via DHL I never really know until practically the delivery day if duty/tax is going to be applied or not. As it happens, I've got something due today from Pine64 via DHL and so far no duty/tax seems due but still I don't know (especially with the circumstance the UK is in right now) until actually delivered.

And may be you might be on to something and the invisible CN22 wasn't itemised? I don't know 100% what's occurred here.

Itemising aside, it doesn't really change anything. The total is the total.

[KNERD]

No, the total value of the merchandise is $65.

Shipping is part of the total value of the merchandise unless the import was a service.

Import duty/taxes apply to goods AND services - the shipping was a service.

A = goods value, B = shipping value. A + B = Sub total 1.
If sub total 1 > allowance ($50) then continue, otherwise can stop now as no duty/tax is applicable.
Sub total 2 = sub total 1 with duty added (think it's 0%?)
Sub total 3 = sub total 2 with tax applied (16%)
Total amount due = (sub total 3 - sub total 1) + handling fees

The mistake being made was imagining shipping doesn't form part of the total value of merchandise - the exception is when the goods are actually services then the transportation cost component is not due duty or tax. Yes, I've read the whole thread although what you thought didn't help to make any sense of the situation. The CN22 isn't obvious as it's not on the package for DHL shipments but internally somewhere value of goods and shipping would've been itemised for the total. Plus there is often no rhyme or reason to duty/tax being applied -- when you think it ought to be applied, it isn't and vice versa. Stuff can be waived through for whatever reason without duty/tax being applied. In any case it's always better to settle first then disagree later and reclaim fees if they were really incorrect.

When I'm expecting something via DHL I never really know until practically the delivery day if duty/tax is going to be applied or not. As it happens, I've got something due today from Pine64 via DHL and so far no duty/tax seems due but still I don't know (especially with the circumstance the UK is in right now) until actually delivered.

And may be you might be on to something and the invisible CN22 wasn't itemised? I don't know 100% what's occurred here.

Itemising aside, it doesn't really change anything. The total is the total.

Are you not reading? I posted a link to a law which CLEARLY states VALUE OF THE ITEM which is over $50USD, not the total paid. I have been doing international imports into Mexico for the past five years from various companies. Had there been no declaration, I could of showed them a receipt paying $30 for the screen and $35 for shipping, and no tax, nor collection fees would have been been due.  This has happened on many occasions.

---

Most countries, including Mexico, calculate import duty/tax upon CIF value which includes shipping. But many countries have a threshold on imported goods under which no fees are applied. That threshold varies a lot from country to country and from fee to fee and is often based on FOB value (shipping exclueded) as is the case in Mexico. In Mexico apparently you don't have to pay VAT if the FOB value doesn't exceed US$50.

So yeah, Pine64 should have probably declared product value und shipping costs separately (I don't know how that actually works), but this whole thing is a bureaucratic jungle and I strongly believe there is no intended harm done here. I'm sure Pine64 can be convinced by the facts that this was an honest mistake which should be sorted out for the benefit of this case and themselves for the future shipping process. I generally believe a company that ships internationally should have this kind of thing sorted out, but as has been pointed out before, Pine64 really makes the impression of trying to make good things available to a community in a very affordable way where other companies probably wouldn't step in because it's not a viable business model. Having everything sorted out perfectly costs money, a lot probably, and for what Pine64 is doing I'm gladly willing to accept the rough edges (which I hope can be smoothened out by direct communication–this seems to be possible here at least to some degree, considering @tllim and others are taking part here). Of course this cannot be put in a contract or anything and it is your right as a customer to have delivered what you paid for, but being open to accepting some inconveniences and having some patience for a more humanitarian take and some greater goals would make so many things so much better (generally speaking). So i'm very happy to see this community is trying to achieve more and willing to help out in so many ways!

Since they use DHL out of other carriers exclusively, one would think they would turn to them for help in making sure they get all these complicated deliveries done correctly. Instead, seem to be taking the "We are correct. End of it" standing.

[lot378]

Are you not reading? I posted a link to a law which CLEARLY states VALUE OF THE ITEM which is over $50USD, not the total paid. I have been doing international imports into Mexico for the past five years from various companies. Had there been no declaration, I could of showed them a receipt paying $30 for the screen and $35 for shipping, and no tax, nor collection fees would have been been due.  This has happened on many occasions.

Try opening your mind and reading all the helpful replies that have been made to help you understand.

Mexico's method of calculating duty and tax on imports is the same as every other country: it's based on the transaction. The transaction is the total value of goods and the cost of shipping (insurance if there was any is included in the transaction value) to derive a total value. The total value (CIF) decides what duty and tax is applied.

Your previous packages that you didn't pay any duty/tax on were probably waived through for whatever reason. That happens all the time.

If you had 100x PinePhone LCD screens as separate orders may be 99x of them would be waived.

This time an exception happened, unfortunately.

I get it your mind is closed about this and you have a different opinion - please let us know how this works out in the end?

[KNERD]

Are you not reading? I posted a link to a law which CLEARLY states VALUE OF THE ITEM which is over $50USD, not the total paid. I have been doing international imports into Mexico for the past five years from various companies. Had there been no declaration, I could of showed them a receipt paying $30 for the screen and $35 for shipping, and no tax, nor collection fees would have been been due.  This has happened on many occasions.

Try opening your mind and reading all the helpful replies that have been made to help you understand.

Mexico's method of calculating duty and tax on imports is the same as every other country: it's based on the transaction. The transaction is the total value of goods and the cost of shipping (insurance if there was any is included in the transaction value) to derive a total value. The total value (CIF) decides what duty and tax is applied.

Your previous packages that you didn't pay any duty/tax on were probably waived through for whatever reason. That happens all the time.

If you had 100x PinePhone LCD screens as separate orders may be 99x of them would be waived.

This time an exception happened, unfortunately.

I get it your mind is closed about this and you have a different opinion - please let us know how this works out in the end?

What part of "value of merchandise" are you failing understand? Paying for shipping and any other fees does not increase the value of any merchandise. I posted the exact law from the government and it seems you not even bothering to read. I think at this point you are just trying to be a troll. I had already mentioned I showed DHL the receipt where I paid the $30 USD for the LCD screen, and shows $35 for shipping. They then called their supervisor to ask about this, and said because the SHIPPER instead declared $65 for the value of the item on the customs form, there is nothing they could do. Sorry, but Pine Store and/or partner company is responsible for the error. They shoudl fix it. I am sure they could contact DHL and have this fixed, but they are not responding.

[KC9UDX]

Whell... Mexico may disagree, but shipping and fees do increase the value of an item. This is how the market works. The initial value of something is what it costs for you to obtain it. The value does fall pretty quickly after this. But at the point of time when import duties/taxes are collected, the value of the item is the total cost to you. Mexico can calculate it for their purposes however they wish. If they don't collect on shipping and handling, that's all fine and good. But then they aren't truly taxing you on the value of the item, even if they say they are.

[KNERD]

Whell... Mexico may disagree, but shipping and fees do increase the value of an item.  This is how the market works.  The initial value of something is what it costs for you to obtain it.  The value does fall pretty quickly after this.  But at the point of time when import duties/taxes are collected, the value of the item is the total cost to you.  Mexico can calculate it for their purposes however they wish.  If they don't collect on shipping and handling, that's all fine and good.  But then they aren't truly taxing you on the value of the item, even if they say they are.

I have been dealing with this for 5 years now. Even carrying stuff into the country they want to see receipts. They only look at the actual base price I paid for the item, not other taxes or fees which may have been incurred.

[KC9UDX]

Then Mexico taxes the base price, not the value.