I created an account after someone shared this thread in a FOSS mobile computing channel.
To answer your questions:
1. A back camera is nice to have for scanning data codes. Key exchange might be a bit of a hassle otherwise.
2. Notification LED, I can't think of a use for anything else. The sixaxis might be a nice quality-of-life thing, but really GNSS/magnetometer is more useful than the IMU.
3. Whichever has better kernel support.
4. GNSS+compass is always useful. It gives you a RTC and if incorporated into a mesh device, it can give the network useful information.
5. no opinion
6. no opinion, but see my other post for an idea
7. smaller if possible?
Although, if I am already carrying around my pinephone, then I wouldn't see myself carrying around this device too. The only thing I wish about the PP were that the screen were smaller, but I love it so far!
Thank you!
The idea sounds very cool! These days, voice communication isn't a hard necessity and especially for a privacy-focused device, the fewer environmental sensors the better. Practically, if a person is to communicate outside of the range of the mesh/wifi networks, they will be carting along some sort of cellular device and if they are at home, then a larger device will likely be the first thing a person reaches for, considering ergonomics and ease-of-use. At home, I use my laptop mainly followed my my phone, since it has all of my conversations already on it, but I don't need cellular.
There might be an opportunity to create something like a "communication core". A scaled down and stripped down version of the pinephone that can run all of one's communication applications and then snap into different docks depending on the desired erogonomics, kind of like what the PocketChip attempted to do.
The core would have the SOC, ram, an indicator light, a small radio, USBC (supporting different host modes) and a small liion battery, like a 10440 or smaller. It then could attach to a pine-phone-style case to get a screen, proximity sensor, ambient light, sixaxis, larger battery, cellular radio, front/rear cameras, etc. Or, it could attach to a pinetab style case for all of the above, with a larger screen. Or it could attach to a cosmo-communicator-style case for a subnotebook-sized keyboard. Or it could attach to a full-sized keyboard for a cyberdeck-esque experience at home.
The idea is that one can detach the "communications core" and leave it in a headless mode if they want to receive messages only (limited to the battery capacity), or attach it to another computer/phone if they want a gateway to a local mesh. Then the user has the option of attaching the device to different form factors if they want a phone on the go or a web-browsing machine at home, and the user's session would be seamless--they wouldn't have to synchronize conversations, keys, images, etc across multiple devices.
Although, it seems like it would be hard to make the phone pack thin (which is okay), and would create lots of additional SKUs as opposed to just making a different device.
Just a thought, cheers!
(10-09-2020, 06:13 PM)I love this idea and would definitely buy one. Most important feature would be multi-hop mesh capability with a well designed long range ISM band radio/antenna system. Would the firmware for for the ISM radio be open source and could developers flash alternatives to the LoRaMesh networking stack? I\m thinking of low-bandwidth more power/range efficient alternatives. Wrote: Quote:Do we need both a front and back camera on the PineCom? In fact, do we need any cameras at all?
Front camera only is ok. There are off-grid PoS applications that require a camera to scan QR codes.
Quote:Should we bring over all sensors present on the PinePhone? If so, which do you think we can do without?
Dead reckoning sensors are important for off-grid uses.
Quote:Should we use the same single band/11n/BT4 WiFi module in the PinePhone (for compatibility sake) or change it out for a dual band/11ac/BT5?
BT5 LE would be a nice option for mid-range mesh communication.
Quote:Should the device feature a GPS (and compass) or are those features redundant in this type of device?
For off-grid users and group coordination GPS is useful.
Quote:Should we include SPI flash?
Booting from MicroSD seems fine.
Quote:We are currently considering following the PinePhone’s general design and aesthetic for the PineCom, but if there is some sort of physical (within reason - also financially) that you think would fit this type of device well then make sure to let us know.
An SMA connector for optional antennas. Also some sort of clip system for attaching to backpack other straps. Best range won't come from being in your pocket.
Quote:We’re currently thinking of using a 5” LCD panel for the PineCom; what do you think about this - is there a reason to go bigger or smaller?
Smaller is better for low power draw.
Quote:We are completely open to any and all suggestions at this point. That said, we’d appreciate it if you’d keep in mind that the targeted price range for this device is $99-149 when offering your insight.
Chipset that supports GFSK modulation and ability to flash alternative mesh network protocols to the firmware.
Also important to have a 'boot on power' option so that fixed installations powered by solar can restart when power is restored.
You might want to talk to the teams at VolkFi, goTenna and PyCom to see if there are any possibilities for collaboration to increase volumes and lower cost.
(10-09-2020, 06:13 PM)Luke Wrote: - Do we need both a front and back camera on the PineCom? In fact, do we need any cameras at all?
We don't need the front camera, but the back one can always be useful
(10-09-2020, 06:13 PM)Luke Wrote: - Should we bring over all sensors present on the PinePhone? If so, which do you think we can do without?
- Should we use the same single band/11n/BT4 WiFi module in the PinePhone (for compatibility sake) or change it out for a dual band/11ac/BT5?
No strong opinion on that, but a chipset with better mainline drivers would sure be nice!
(10-09-2020, 06:13 PM)Luke Wrote: - Should the device feature a GPS (and compass) or are those features redundant in this type of device?
Yes please!
(10-09-2020, 06:13 PM)Luke Wrote: - Should we include SPI flash?
If you plan to keep the eMMC I don't see the use for it. But a 32-128Mbytes SPI flash could be interesting as a boot device.
Actually, integrated storage doesn't seem necessary as long as we can boot from SD, if it can help bring the cost down.
(10-09-2020, 06:13 PM)Luke Wrote: - We’re currently thinking of using a 5” LCD panel for the PineCom; what do you think about this - is there a reason to go bigger or smaller?
4"-5" would be a perfect size
Speaking as someone who just went thru a whole rigamarole of getting a new secondary android device that could run LineageOS to get google (mostly) off of it...
This is a fantastic idea. It's been so long since I've seen a dedicated non-phone "smartphone", and one coming from Pine is quite exciting.
Regarding features, the big ones for me are:
- Bluetooth support
- Back camera (no front needed, probably)
- GPS (allows for mobile navigation with an offline map)
I don't think I personally will use them, but I also strongly recommend POGO pins, similar to what the PinePhone has, as I can see how a non-phone device like this could be used as a control surface for home automation, and other similar sensor-related gadgets.
(10-10-2020, 04:25 PM)KC9UDX Wrote: I'm a little surprised that anyone uses an MP3 player. I went straight from cassettes to smartphones. I'm not sure what good an MP3 player is when everyone carries a smartphone.
I did explain the use case in my post.
To add to that though, I don't like the hyperconvergence that has happened with cellphones. It's useful sometimes but other times it gets in the way. For instance, I could use a separate GPS unit because of how bad it is to be in horrible highway traffic trying to go somewhere and needing updates from my GPS... and then someone calls me. I'd love a device that gives me a separate screen+sound but it could otherwise give me the same navigation as what I get on my phone. Then some annoying telemarketer, or a relative, wouldn't cause me to miss my turn.
(10-12-2020, 09:27 AM)nyxxenator Wrote: (10-10-2020, 04:25 PM)KC9UDX Wrote: I'm a little surprised that anyone uses an MP3 player. I went straight from cassettes to smartphones. I'm not sure what good an MP3 player is when everyone carries a smartphone.
I did explain the use case in my post.
To add to that though, I don't like the hyperconvergence that has happened with cellphones. It's useful sometimes but other times it gets in the way. For instance, I could use a separate GPS unit because of how bad it is to be in horrible highway traffic trying to go somewhere and needing updates from my GPS... and then someone calls me. I'd love a device that gives me a separate screen+sound but it could otherwise give me the same navigation as what I get on my phone. Then some annoying telemarketer, or a relative, wouldn't cause me to miss my turn.
I have a dozen old phones that do all these things very well. And should there be an emergency, they will still call 999. They just do everything so much better than any standalone device. The only downfall in some cases is battery life. But in all the uses I have, they don't run off the internal battery anymore. And unlike standalone MP3 players, I can add songs and playlists from my NAS via ftp when the devices are places out of reach. Often I don't know exactly where they are when I do that.
- Do we need both a front and back camera on the PineCom? In fact, do we need any cameras at all?
I have always lamented the cameras which cost money and inevitably find tape on them. No cameras!This is a Linux or BSD device, so I could potentially just plug in a web cam anyway.
- Should we bring over all sensors present on the PinePhone? If so, which do you think we can do without?
Communication not navigation. I don't think you need any of the sensory devices.
- Should we use the same single band/11n/BT4 WiFi module in the PinePhone (for compatibility sake) or change it out for a dual band/11ac/BT5?
I would recommend upgrading now instead of later.
- Should the device feature a GPS (and compass) or are those features redundant in this type of device?
GPS gone with modem, that is okay.
- Should we include SPI flash?
I'm not sure about that one.
- We are currently considering following the PinePhone’s general design and aesthetic for the PineCom.
Standard phone design is good, no camera could increase the screen/body ratio and make the phone nice and compact.
- We’re currently thinking of using a 5” LCD panel for the PineCom; what do you think about this - is there a reason to go bigger or smaller?
I think slightly bigger might be nice... like 5.3"... especially if the screen/body ratio is higher than the original Pinephone.Worth noting, when you choose the modem, I would make sure it supports variable power output levels.I would also suggest looking into an LCD screen. The new Casio calculator screens are LCD and pretty cool.With similar specs, this device could be a very low power, low cost, high security communications device. I know some government workers are not allowed to bring cameras into their facilities.Thank you for considering.
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