I perceive a marked dropoff in activity regarding new threads and replies in this forum over last week or so. I think that people are losing interest in trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems that just go on and on and are losing interest. Or, it could be that people have solved all the multitudinous issues and are happily using their phones. I am interested to know which it is?
Personally, my PPP does not now make calls. It did for a while. If it can't make calls, I don't consider it a cell phone. My problem is either with the sim/sd card holder or the modem hardware or software as far as I can diagnose. I can take the sim card out of my PPP and put it in PP and that phone makes calls fine. I tend to think the problem is with the sim/sd holder and not the modem. I've changed OS/desktop software so much I don't think it is modem software causing the issue. Modem hardware I have no information regarding diagnosis. Also, I can't get a replacement part for the sim/sd card holder to examine that as a solution to not making calls.
Chime in with your experience. Have you put PPP aside, with discouragement, until problems get sorted out and straight forward solutions are available or are you using it?
tom kosvic
(04-09-2022, 10:28 AM)tckosvic Wrote: Chime in with your experience. Have you put PPP aside, with discouragement, until problems get sorted out and straight forward solutions are available or are you using it?
tom kosvic
There are 10 distros available for PPP with 3 different UI's (KDE, Phosh, SXMO),
none of them is really working for anything,
it is very time consuming to figure out if something is broken by OS, by Kernel or by UI.
Its even harder to find out where to place a bug report or to get the info that the bug is known.
I do not know what pine64 is doing (except promoting product features which are not there, yet),
all I know is that there are a handful people working on some stuff, but its a huge disadvantage that there is no lead distro with some lead devs, no roadmap etc.
Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the Linux phone, the keyboard case, the convergence mode, the foss, but I do not know how to debug spi, kernel or write drivers... so its a bit a waste of time.... sometimes I am compiling stuff to check if it runs (and chat with the devs if it does not), which is cool, but what's going on with GPS, with mobile data, with sleep mode, with GSM?
It would be so great to have some kind of board on top of this forum, where we can see what is working, what not, which things are on the roadmap, which coders are working on what and how we can support them, what we could test and report and so on....
04-09-2022, 05:52 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2022, 05:57 PM by fxc.)
(04-09-2022, 01:36 PM)magdesign Wrote: (04-09-2022, 10:28 AM)tckosvic Wrote: Chime in with your experience. Have you put PPP aside, with discouragement, until problems get sorted out and straight forward solutions are available or are you using it?
tom kosvic
There are 10 distros available for PPP with 3 different UI's (KDE, Phosh, SXMO),
none of them is really working for anything,
it is very time consuming to figure out if something is broken by OS, by Kernel or by UI.
Its even harder to find out where to place a bug report or to get the info that the bug is known.
I do not know what pine64 is doing (except promoting product features which are not there, yet),
all I know is that there are a handful people working on some stuff, but its a huge disadvantage that there is no lead distro with some lead devs, no roadmap etc.
Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the Linux phone, the keyboard case, the convergence mode, the foss, but I do not know how to debug spi, kernel or write drivers... so its a bit a waste of time.... sometimes I am compiling stuff to check if it runs (and chat with the devs if it does not), which is cool, but what's going on with GPS, with mobile data, with sleep mode, with GSM?
It would be so great to have some kind of board on top of this forum, where we can see what is working, what not, which things are on the roadmap, which coders are working on what and how we can support them, what we could test and report and so on....
I highly highly highly disagree with that, because it is based on a multitude of wrong assumptions. The main wrong assumption is the "if we just pull on one string together" assumption, which is assuming that if people work on a single project instead of what they want to the project gets further. That assumption is demonstrably false. Devs work on the project they are interested in, there is no compulsion (either legally through employment contracts or through slavery) to force people to work on specific projects in their free and unpaid time.
The second wrong assumption is that information is self-producing. It is not, you need people to write down information. Incomplete documentation is always an issue in FOSS projects and this can't be solved by forcing developers to write it instead of to write code (see point 1), instead it is solved by contributing the documentation (yourself).
The third thing I disagree with is the statement that it is a disadvantage. Instead the development is quite healthy at this state and things are progressing and bugs are solved over time. Especially documenting volatile bugs at this very early state (mind the early adopters batch status) is a treadmill of work so for most people it is the best option to wait until the major bugs are ironed out, if they are not contributors. The main actual issues (in contrast to the claimed issues) are instead a lack of contributors (including maybe you?), so stuff takes some time until it is working or is ordered and documented somewhere. I invite you to join one of the projects and to ask them what you can help them with, because any help is needed and because distorted views about how the development takes place (and should take place) can be prevented in that case.
(04-09-2022, 10:28 AM)tckosvic Wrote: I perceive a marked dropoff in activity regarding new threads and replies in this forum over last week or so. I think that people are losing interest in trying to solve seemingly unsolvable problems that just go on and on and are losing interest. Or, it could be that people have solved all the multitudinous issues and are happily using their phones. I am interested to know which it is?
Personally, my PPP does not now make calls. It did for a while. If it can't make calls, I don't consider it a cell phone. My problem is either with the sim/sd card holder or the modem hardware or software as far as I can diagnose. I can take the sim card out of my PPP and put it in PP and that phone makes calls fine. I tend to think the problem is with the sim/sd holder and not the modem. I've changed OS/desktop software so much I don't think it is modem software causing the issue. Modem hardware I have no information regarding diagnosis. Also, I can't get a replacement part for the sim/sd card holder to examine that as a solution to not making calls.
Chime in with your experience. Have you put PPP aside, with discouragement, until problems get sorted out and straight forward solutions are available or are you using it?
tom kosvic
tckosvic, I strongly suggest you to get hold of some log files. Especially with the FOSS modem firmware the possibility to debug issues is quite well. I have a feeling that your current approach of looking into the issue is quite narrow and you're stepping on the same place for now. I strongly suggest you to join the bridged community chat channels once again, https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Main_Page#Chat_Platforms. Exchange of ideas, some development and questions and answers takes place more than here in the small forum bubble.
04-10-2022, 03:44 AM
Thanks for your statement.
I'll keep on doing my best in testing things and writing here and there on what is working, what is broken and how to solve things and how to compile stuff etc.
Sometimes I am not sure if I may open an issue or if I am just pissing onto a devs leg when reporting what is not working, which does not feel very productive at all.
Still tinkering about a good way to pull information together so its easy and fast accessible, for example in this forum we have a lot of duplicate posts asking the same thing in another category.
I like to write docs.... but what does it help when no one knows where they exist...
btw:
my answer on @ tckosvic question is an impression which might be only me, maybe other pinephoners feel the same... we see if someone else writes something...
04-12-2022, 03:05 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-12-2022, 03:06 PM by tckosvic.)
(04-10-2022, 03:44 AM)magdesign Wrote: Thanks for your statement.
I'll keep on doing my best in testing things and writing here and there on what is working, what is broken and how to solve things and how to compile stuff etc.
Sometimes I am not sure if I may open an issue or if I am just pissing onto a devs leg when reporting what is not working, which does not feel very productive at all.
Still tinkering about a good way to pull information together so its easy and fast accessible, for example in this forum we have a lot of duplicate posts asking the same thing in another category.
I like to write docs.... but what does it help when no one knows where they exist...
btw:
my answer on @tckosvic question is an impression which might be only me, maybe other pinephoners feel the same... we see if someone else writes something... I think this forum should be purged, expunged and restarted from bare. There is so much conflicting, out of date, and erroneous information on here than any one new could go down multiple wrong paths. Only someone that was here from the time of the initial PPP distribution could make any sense of what is here.
Let's restart with a new forum and some summary status doc (including a careful rewrite of the wiki) for each of the preeminent (active) OS/desktop combinations. And also a defined place to enter bugs for each of the different group of developers. I will volunteer to help.
tom kosvic
Drop off in activity? Almost every post on this forum nowadays is exclusively either about the PP or the PPP. Other Pine64 products sometimes get a mention but that has become a rarity (probably because they are unobtainable even the LTS).
No, the forum needs neither a "purge" or a "new beginning".
Like life, you need to make your best judgement on the information available then make your choice to proceed or not. The old threads may contain out of date information they are still a valuable record and can be learned from.
04-14-2022, 07:35 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2022, 07:43 PM by brb78.)
It makes calls, sends and receives SMS (and MMS now!) and can connect to cellular data. For a device with software that has a total development budget that is likely negligibly above zero, I'd say that's rather impressive for less than 6 months.
Help out or be patient. Filing (relevant and informed) bug reports is a form of helping if you can't muster anything more technical.
I wish the battery lasted more than 4 hours, but I'm also not paying Goopple 100 bars of gold pressed latinum and all my data forever. I'm pretty confident enough other people also want more than 0.75 on-hold sessions with their cable provider that, this too, will eventually be fixed.
04-15-2022, 08:59 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2022, 09:08 AM by tckosvic.)
(04-14-2022, 07:35 PM)brb78 Wrote: It makes calls, sends and receives SMS (and MMS now!) and can connect to cellular data. For a device with software that has a total development budget that is likely negligibly above zero, I'd say that's rather impressive for less than 6 months.
Help out or be patient. Filing (relevant and informed) bug reports is a form of helping if you can't muster anything more technical.
I wish the battery lasted more than 4 hours, but I'm also not paying Goopple 100 bars of gold pressed latinum and all my data forever. I'm pretty confident enough other people also want more than 0.75 on-hold sessions with their cable provider that, this too, will eventually be fixed.
My PPP phone is borked and will not make calls as it once did. The cause, I believe is due to sd/sim card holder failure after countless reinstalls of sd cards trying new software since the actual memory installed in the phone is not usable without major tweaks. There is no movement from pinephone to make this part available for purchase as I have requested from them for 2 months. There is a start of some program where you take your phone to a repair shop and they are to send pictures to pinephone and then they will send you a FREE $0.30 part. This is no forward motion.
I have put 125 messages on this forum providing info on what I have figured out and describing the problems I have found to, hopefully, solicit comments. I have worked with unix and linux for 60 years. I see no concise rational set of instructions that would help anyone with setting up or troubleshooting a new PPP phone. The forum is a total mish-mash of misleading, out of date, and erroneous comments and needs to be restarted.
Good luck with your battery on a phone that discharges your battery when you put it on the charger. I use my PP (where all works, even the camera) to charge the battery to put into my PPP.
(04-14-2022, 06:38 AM)lot378 Wrote: Drop off in activity? Almost every post on this forum nowadays is exclusively either about the PP or the PPP. Other Pine64 products sometimes get a mention but that has become a rarity (probably because they are unobtainable even the LTS).
No, the forum needs neither a "purge" or a "new beginning".
Like life, you need to make your best judgement on the information available then make your choice to proceed or not. The old threads may contain out of date information they are still a valuable record and can be learned from.
Yes, drop off in activity. There used to be half a dozen comments per hour and now there is one per day.
04-15-2022, 06:12 PM
(This post was last modified: 04-15-2022, 06:13 PM by lot378.)
(04-15-2022, 08:59 AM)tckosvic Wrote: (04-14-2022, 06:38 AM)lot378 Wrote: Drop off in activity? Almost every post on this forum nowadays is exclusively either about the PP or the PPP. Other Pine64 products sometimes get a mention but that has become a rarity (probably because they are unobtainable even the LTS).
No, the forum needs neither a "purge" or a "new beginning".
Like life, you need to make your best judgement on the information available then make your choice to proceed or not. The old threads may contain out of date information they are still a valuable record and can be learned from.
Yes, drop off in activity. There used to be half a dozen comments per hour and now there is one per day.
Uh huh - there are more than "one per day" so that is factually incorrect.
May be you would get more mileage from visiting the other Pine64 channels like discord, matrix or telegram. To "newer" users "forums" are a relic when it comes to interactions they prefer those other modes.
04-16-2022, 09:17 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2022, 09:18 AM by tckosvic.)
(04-15-2022, 06:12 PM)lot378 Wrote: (04-15-2022, 08:59 AM)tckosvic Wrote: (04-14-2022, 06:38 AM)lot378 Wrote: Drop off in activity? Almost every post on this forum nowadays is exclusively either about the PP or the PPP. Other Pine64 products sometimes get a mention but that has become a rarity (probably because they are unobtainable even the LTS).
No, the forum needs neither a "purge" or a "new beginning".
Like life, you need to make your best judgement on the information available then make your choice to proceed or not. The old threads may contain out of date information they are still a valuable record and can be learned from.
Yes, drop off in activity. There used to be half a dozen comments per hour and now there is one per day.
Uh huh - there are more than "one per day" so that is factually incorrect.
May be you would get more mileage from visiting the other Pine64 channels like discord, matrix or telegram. To "newer" users "forums" are a relic when it comes to interactions they prefer those other modes. i think you should go look at the forum for the PPP topics: general topics had 1 post today, Software had none today so far, and hardware had none today thus far and none for the last 3 days. Don't be so flippant with your comments without looking at the info that is there.
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