12-08-2020, 09:26 AM
Background:
I have seen it mentioned some times that an e-reader would be a nice addition to the Pine production line. Luke has gently shot down all of these suggestions because it would be too hard to compete against Kindle and friends. I think that this is true, but I also think that there is a genuine untapped market right next to this field.
Deeper Background:
I have been using a feature phone as my main phone for ever. It has a battery life of three weeks. Now, the phone obviously doesn't do much. It can call and text. But it is extremely small (the size of two zippo lighters) and durable. The thing is, the phone is so trustworthy compared to my work phone (iPhone) or the Pinephone that I still have not taken my sim out and basically can't think of the Pinephone as a daily driver. Of course this trustworthines is based on me forgetting to keep the other two phones loaded, but this exactly is the point: I want a device that I can forget for a week and it will still do what I need it to do.
My proposition:
I think Pine should seriously consider competing in Low Power Consumption Phones. Put an e-ink display on the phone, not because you compete against Kindle, but because you compete in the empty space between a traditional smartphone and a traditional feature phone. Sell a solar panel for the backside of the phone and you can say you have a phone that can keep on going without touching an outlet.
Besides being a person who dislikes when my devices make daily requests on me, I also happen to work in an area where I sometimes end up in places where you really might go a week without electricity. In these harsher conditions I have basically come to see a standard smartphone as dead weight. I can imagine an array of special professions that could benefit from having a customizable low power consumption smartphone with them.
(12-08-2020, 09:26 AM)undo Wrote: Background:
I have seen it mentioned some times that an e-reader would be a nice addition to the Pine production line. Luke has gently shot down all of these suggestions because it would be too hard to compete against Kindle and friends. I think that this is true, but I also think that there is a genuine untapped market right next to this field.
Deeper Background:
I have been using a feature phone as my main phone for ever. It has a battery life of three weeks. Now, the phone obviously doesn't do much. It can call and text. But it is extremely small (the size of two zippo lighters) and durable. The thing is, the phone is so trustworthy compared to my work phone (iPhone) or the Pinephone that I still have not taken my sim out and basically can't think of the Pinephone as a daily driver. Of course this trustworthines is based on me forgetting to keep the other two phones loaded, but this exactly is the point: I want a device that I can forget for a week and it will still do what I need it to do.
My proposition:
I think Pine should seriously consider competing in Low Power Consumption Phones. Put an e-ink display on the phone, not because you compete against Kindle, but because you compete in the empty space between a traditional smartphone and a traditional feature phone. Sell a solar panel for the backside of the phone and you can say you have a phone that can keep on going without touching an outlet.
Besides being a person who dislikes when my devices make daily requests on me, I also happen to work in an area where I sometimes end up in places where you really might go a week without electricity. In these harsher conditions I have basically come to see a standard smartphone as dead weight. I can imagine an array of special professions that could benefit from having a customizable low power consumption smartphone with them.
I absolutely agree with this suggestion. I've been thinking lately one of the issues with the PinePhone concept is that people are working very hard to just replicate what you already can get through Android or IOS. In a way it's almost just a novelty.
Running Linux on desktop is becoming much more practical every day, and I'm thrilled with the performance and mobility of my Pinebook Pro. Maybe our phones don't need to be a mini computer?
I know my wife would greatly appreciate me not checking my phone all the time when we're relaxing at home, so now I'm starting to think about checking out simple feature phones.
I've been looking at the Punkt MP02 lately. I like that it's USB-C (so I don't have to carry an extra charger in my backpack), and that it's capable being a 4G hotspot so that I can just pull out my PBP whenever I need access to email/internet/etc.
I was thinking something like that on a Pine platform would be pretty cool. Maybe in addition to what the Punkt phone can do, add terminal for anybody that needs to SSH into a server? (I know that sort of defeats the purpose of being a minimalist phone that's supposed to keep you focused on what's around you instead of work)
Anyway, some sort of feature phone with great battery life that can be a hotspot, I'd be very interested in having.
If Pine can do the hardware I'd be happy to run a crowdfunding campaign to see if there is enough interest.
My personal preference would for it to be on the smaller side, but if we can just have a PinePhone variant with an e-Ink screen that would be awesome  .
I'd love to have an e-ink phone!
(12-11-2020, 09:45 AM)SteveSquatch Wrote: I've been thinking lately one of the issues with the PinePhone concept is that people are working very hard to just replicate what you already can get through Android or IOS. In a way it's almost just a novelty.
Quite frankly, this is a somewhat wrong way of thinking. Please allow me to explain.
While I do agree that replicating Android or iOS makes very little sense, the whole point of the PinePhone is to have an (as much as possible) open-hardware embedded device that allows anyone to do whatever they want with it (just like with a desktop PC), and allows anyone to know what it is actually doing (unlike Android or iOS), while it may also provide the functionality of a (smart)phone, if desired so.
Please, don't get me wrong, I do not advocate that the PinePhone is going to become another Android. In fact, it should not and cannot become that, simply because it's very far from being realistic. If anyone wants "just a smartphone that works well", buying a PinePhone makes no sense whatsoever. Instead, go buy an Android or iPhone, it would be a much better choice. If you want "just a phone that works", go buy a used old Nokia phone or something similar. However, if anyone wants another embedded Linux computer that may also be used as a phone, definitely go buy a PinePhone (or two).
In other words, the PinePhone is an open embedded computer that may also be used as a phone, if desired so. That's an awesome concept, IMHO, which unfortunately was absent for at least a couple of decades.
(02-10-2021, 01:01 AM)dsimic Wrote: (12-11-2020, 09:45 AM)SteveSquatch Wrote: I've been thinking lately one of the issues with the PinePhone concept is that people are working very hard to just replicate what you already can get through Android or IOS. In a way it's almost just a novelty.
Quite frankly, this is a somewhat wrong way of thinking. Please allow me to explain.
While I do agree that replicating Android or iOS makes very little sense, the whole point of the PinePhone is to have an (as much as possible) open-hardware embedded device that allows anyone to do whatever they want with it (just like with a desktop PC), and allows anyone to know what it is actually doing (unlike Android or iOS), while it may also provide the functionality of a (smart)phone, if desired so.
Please, don't get me wrong, I do not advocate that the PinePhone is going to become another Android. In fact, it should not and cannot become that, simply because it's very far from being realistic. If anyone wants "just a smartphone that works well", buying a PinePhone makes no sense whatsoever. Instead, go buy an Android or iPhone, it would be a much better choice. If you want "just a phone that works", go buy a used old Nokia phone or something similar. However, if anyone wants another embedded Linux computer that may also be used as a phone, definitely go buy a PinePhone (or two).
In other words, the PinePhone is an open embedded computer that may also be used as a phone, if desired so. That's an awesome concept, IMHO, which unfortunately was absent for at least a couple of decades. You know, I stand corrected. That is a good way of looking at it.
FWIW, I ordered a Pinephone that should hopefully be here in a couple weeks. I'm using a Punkt MP02 phone right now, and I'm hopeful this will be the best combination: using a "dumb phone" for reliable call/text and hotspot. Then having a mini Linux touch device as a "companion" device where I'll have something smarter than the Punkt phone at my finger tips when needed.
I'm looking forward to setting up my Raspberry Pi 4 as a media server at home and connecting to it via SSH with a phone. I'm going to work on some Python scripts for scraping podcasts and vlogs to the RPI and then being able to browse my inventory through SSH to download content to the Pinephone for my commute.
Isn't it great how far the SBCs have come in general? All kinds of tasks no longer require a "full-size" computer.
What's left is to improve and optimize the software to run well on all those SBCs, which includes the PinePhone.
(02-10-2021, 01:01 AM)dsimic Wrote: (12-11-2020, 09:45 AM)SteveSquatch Wrote: I've been thinking lately one of the issues with the PinePhone concept is that people are working very hard to just replicate what you already can get through Android or IOS. In a way it's almost just a novelty.
Quite frankly, this is a somewhat wrong way of thinking. Please allow me to explain.(snip)
I need what pinephone is at hardware and with daily driver grade software setup will eventually be, a full function pocket computer phone with an easy to use and hack UI with trusted hardware and software.
That siad....
I would like even more a pocket sized computer which for most purposes can run on a very low consumption ARM or RISC V CPU optomized low power programs(look what we could do in 1999 on an old 200mhz ARM Linux Zaurus) and light up a higher performing watt waster CPU when needed, maybe displaying a warning, say a red border or whatever, so a user doesn't accidently burn through a battery in a few hours when they need a week or more of lifetime for a situation.
I also am called to work in an environments where water resist, a long life low temp battery, option of solar charging, and a e-ink/e-paper display, the solar/e-ink can both be in a case cover.
Give me an over the top dream gadget, slider keyboard with NFC and Qi as well as some i2c pads and maybe a USB or two for stuff like RTL-SDR, then a flap cover for the front of the phone to portect the glass, inside an eInk and outside a charging solar cell; if you can somehow shoehorn a real SDR with amplified to usable TX for amateur radio freqs even better. I used to carry a bagphone in the 90s, I still carry around two HTs in my bag as well as often a QRP radio. I am sure there will be others like me.
I would love a open-source dumphone.
Something with a form factor similar to the modern Nokia 105, but with the ability to run custom software.
I would like to switch to a dumphone entirely, but the one thing I still need my smartphone for is 2FA. If I had a dumphone that I could run my own software on I could install a simple program for this and ditch my smartphone entirely.
The specs would not need to be powerful at all, just enough to run simple C programs. The Nokia 105 does fine with 4M of storage and 4M of RAM.
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