keyboard and usb-c
#1
Hello,
I have a pinephone with arch phos. Since I installed the pine 64 keyboard on my pinephone, the usb-c dock no longer works: neither the usb jack nor the rj45 jack, is it a hardware incompatibility or a software problem?
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#2
(01-21-2022, 09:56 AM)oihantto64 Wrote: Hello,
I have a pinephone with arch phos. Since I installed the pine 64 keyboard on my pinephone, the usb-c dock no longer works: neither the usb jack nor the rj45 jack, is it a hardware incompatibility or a software problem?

From what I have read is that the usb-c and the pogo pins are the same, so you cannot have both. I think that is what happening
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#3
(01-24-2022, 02:29 AM)KJ6OHG Wrote:
(01-21-2022, 09:56 AM)oihantto64 Wrote: Hello,
I have a pinephone with arch phos. Since I installed the pine 64 keyboard on my pinephone, the usb-c dock no longer works: neither the usb jack nor the rj45 jack, is it a hardware incompatibility or a software problem?

From what I have read is that the usb-c and the pogo pins are the same, so you cannot have both. I think that is what happening
I thank you for the information, but then why turn pinephone into micro computer if it can no longer connect? and the usb-c port accepts multiple connections, why not pogo pins?
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#4
(01-24-2022, 02:29 AM)KJ6OHG Wrote:
(01-21-2022, 09:56 AM)oihantto64 Wrote: Hello,
I have a pinephone with arch phos. Since I installed the pine 64 keyboard on my pinephone, the usb-c dock no longer works: neither the usb jack nor the rj45 jack, is it a hardware incompatibility or a software problem?

From what I have read is that the usb-c and the pogo pins are the same, so you cannot have both. I think that is what happening

Can you provide a link to what you have read, because it sounds like nonsense? The pogo pins expose an I2C bus, not a USB connection.
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#5
(01-24-2022, 05:48 AM)irongarment Wrote:
(01-24-2022, 02:29 AM)KJ6OHG Wrote:
(01-21-2022, 09:56 AM)oihantto64 Wrote: Hello,
I have a pinephone with arch phos. Since I installed the pine 64 keyboard on my pinephone, the usb-c dock no longer works: neither the usb jack nor the rj45 jack, is it a hardware incompatibility or a software problem?

From what I have read is that the usb-c and the pogo pins are the same, so you cannot have both. I think that is what happening

Can you provide a link to what you have read, because it sounds like nonsense? The pogo pins expose an I2C bus, not a USB connection.

If the pogo pins use an I2C bus and not a USB connection, then does the problem of connecting the pine phone to usb-c come from the software?
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#6
(01-24-2022, 05:48 AM)irongarment Wrote:
(01-24-2022, 02:29 AM)KJ6OHG Wrote:
(01-21-2022, 09:56 AM)oihantto64 Wrote: Hello,
I have a pinephone with arch phos. Since I installed the pine 64 keyboard on my pinephone, the usb-c dock no longer works: neither the usb jack nor the rj45 jack, is it a hardware incompatibility or a software problem?

From what I have read is that the usb-c and the pogo pins are the same, so you cannot have both. I think that is what happening

Can you provide a link to what you have read, because it sounds like nonsense? The pogo pins expose an I2C bus, not a USB connection.

Here it is
https://xnux.eu/pinephone-keyboard/faq.html#safety
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#7
Presumably you mean this part:

Quote:Can I plug something to the phone's Type-C port?

    No! When the keyboard is connected to the phone, it powers the phone by internally supplying 5V to the VBUS of the phone's Type-C port. So if you connect another USB power supply to the phone's Type-C port, it's like connecting two chargers to the phone by cutting and splicing their cables. (Likely not a good thing, or something you'd consider doing if it was presented to you that way.) If you connect some USB peripheral there that only consumes power from the port (like mouse, unpowered dock, etc.), it may work (in theory), but only if you make *absolutely sure* the phone will not enable its power output to the USB device! No distros ensure that at the moment. When you plug USB periperal it's the same as plugging in two chargers into the same port, without additional software support that doesn't exist, yet.
That doesn't say the USB and pogo pins are the same. It says that the 5V pogo pin is used as an input to the phone to power the phone from the keyboard power circuit, not as an output from the phone to power an external circuit from the phone's power circuit.

It's also not very well written, and therefore a bit ambiguous. I would expect to be able to plug a USB device, but not a power source, into the phone's USB socket with the keyboard connected.

I suppose I could test it as I have the HDMI/network dongle that came with the phone.
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#8
(01-24-2022, 09:14 PM)irongarment Wrote: That doesn't say the USB and pogo pins are the same. It says that the 5V pogo pin is used as an input to the phone to power the phone from the keyboard power circuit, not as an output from the phone to power an external circuit from the phone's power circuit.

It's also not very well written, and therefore a bit ambiguous. I would expect to be able to plug a USB device, but not a power source, into the phone's USB socket with the keyboard connected.

The DCIN pogo pin on the PinePhone connects to the VBUS line of the USB connector which is used for both providing and draining power. More about this can be found in the wiki. I think what is meant here is that connecting two power sources (keyboard + external source) to the same line is obviously a bad idea, but it might be a bad idea the other way around as well. If you connect two devices to the phone you end up with 3 devices (the phone + 2 external devices). The keyboard provides power while the phone and the 3rd device either consume or provide power. If any two of those provide power at the same time, it's bad. Now if the 3rd device makes the phone provide power (instead of just using the keyboard power that's already there; which I think is meant by "enable its power output to the USB device"), you have the keyboard and the phone providing power on the same line. I don't know how a peripheral tells a host to provide power, but to my understanding this is a possibility that cannot be ruled out as of yet which makes it a bad idea to plug anything into the phone's USB port while the keyboard is attached.
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#9
Ok, but in the keyboard manual it says this:

Quote:You should charge the PinePhone and the keyboard only using the USB-C ③ port on the keyboard. The
keyboard’s USB-C port cannot be used for peripherals. The PinePhone’s USB-C port remains operational
when mounted in the keyboard and can be used for data and peripherals.

Which is what I would have expected.
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#10
I don't know enough about the USB internals to recommend something here, but I would rather trust megi's expertise than the manual.

Apparently a device signals its presence through the CC pins which allows a host to provide VBUS power to establish communication. I don't know how this case is handled in the PinePhone while it's draining power from VBUS.
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