Market Forces and Open Hardware
03-09-2021, 07:54 AM
I understand your want for privacy and security, support it even, but it's unclear what your threat model is. If it's to simply stop state actors spying on you using some commercial device (think Amazon Ring sending data to the police) - then it should be enough to run an open source device.
The thing about these processor bugs you see with Intel and AMD is that they have been tested thoroughly - I would argue that ARM and RISC-V is yet to be put through the same level of testing. For example, has anybody done even basic instruction fuzzing on these platforms? I've not seen the work done... I would suggest security researchers checkout big-little cores specifically, there is some really crazy memory sharing going on there that could be abused.
> That should read in the past tense, as it is not putting any devices into any hands this year--which is my point. What if the prices on lcds never return to what they once were? $300 is still a low price. You can always lower the price back to what it was, if the market returns to what it was.
There is still an availability problem at any price at the moment. The low-volume orders Pine have are also a problem. Some factories won't even entertain them.
> Now linux installs easier than windows, and everything works (on x86).
After screwing around trying to get Windows 10 to install on a new laptop, I have to agree. I even installed Linux onto it in about 15 minutes to test the hardware was actually working correctly.
> I represent a unique set of alternative parents who are not infected with consumerism: however, I agree that these devices might not ever be ready for your average consumer who will want a refund for every glitch, of which this world has too many.
I think you find yourself in an even more fringe group than the hacker community then.
> Row Hammer was a good one to mention: I don't think risc-v has anything to do with it, as it targets the dram, and I suppose the risc-v beagle will have dram too... maybe risc-v with sram would be super secure--but sram chips seem to be measured in KB, and a MB chip is a huge one; 500 hundred of those would sure take up space and dinero...
If the memory is tightly packed, you're going to get electron leakage - only way out is ECC. It's really memory sharing that caused all this Spectre and Meltdown issues anyway. I expect before the end of the year somebody discovers a flaw in AMD's infini-fabric. I was reading something yesterday about how it's theoretically possible to bypass CPU ring protection too.
> currently on $200 boxstore lenovo ideapad with amd hybrid cpu/gpu
Not so sure about your threat model, Lenovo laptops have been caught shipping with Malware: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-...o-laptops/
The thing about these processor bugs you see with Intel and AMD is that they have been tested thoroughly - I would argue that ARM and RISC-V is yet to be put through the same level of testing. For example, has anybody done even basic instruction fuzzing on these platforms? I've not seen the work done... I would suggest security researchers checkout big-little cores specifically, there is some really crazy memory sharing going on there that could be abused.
> That should read in the past tense, as it is not putting any devices into any hands this year--which is my point. What if the prices on lcds never return to what they once were? $300 is still a low price. You can always lower the price back to what it was, if the market returns to what it was.
There is still an availability problem at any price at the moment. The low-volume orders Pine have are also a problem. Some factories won't even entertain them.
> Now linux installs easier than windows, and everything works (on x86).
After screwing around trying to get Windows 10 to install on a new laptop, I have to agree. I even installed Linux onto it in about 15 minutes to test the hardware was actually working correctly.
> I represent a unique set of alternative parents who are not infected with consumerism: however, I agree that these devices might not ever be ready for your average consumer who will want a refund for every glitch, of which this world has too many.
I think you find yourself in an even more fringe group than the hacker community then.
> Row Hammer was a good one to mention: I don't think risc-v has anything to do with it, as it targets the dram, and I suppose the risc-v beagle will have dram too... maybe risc-v with sram would be super secure--but sram chips seem to be measured in KB, and a MB chip is a huge one; 500 hundred of those would sure take up space and dinero...
If the memory is tightly packed, you're going to get electron leakage - only way out is ECC. It's really memory sharing that caused all this Spectre and Meltdown issues anyway. I expect before the end of the year somebody discovers a flaw in AMD's infini-fabric. I was reading something yesterday about how it's theoretically possible to bypass CPU ring protection too.
> currently on $200 boxstore lenovo ideapad with amd hybrid cpu/gpu
Not so sure about your threat model, Lenovo laptops have been caught shipping with Malware: https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/now-three-...o-laptops/
