(08-28-2021, 09:42 AM)lot378 Wrote: New LCD screen for PinePhone is $34.95 + shipping (USD).
If you bought it as a community offered (discounted) phone then the warranty is ultra limited and fixes are DIY.
If you bought it as a retail phone (+$100 over community price) then complaints might mean something.
Much like kern707 above me, is it really acceptable for a lightly-used device that has been handled with utmost care to have its screen unusable after less than 6 months? Why should I have any faith in the replacement screen if PINE64 refuses to as much as publicly acknowledge the issue, let alone work with the community to find the cause as all signs point to it being a widespread, systematic issue, not an isolated incident? Where's the guarantee that I won't need to buy ANOTHER replacement 6 months down the line? Oh wait there is none; 30 day warranty, go buy another one, it's just $35! You're not poor, are you?
08-29-2021, 06:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-29-2021, 06:21 PM by lot378.)
It is regrettable and I understand you, however those are the facts and explanation for why support tickets are shutdown or appear ignored - it was never good advice to recommend you or anyone else try that route. There is no recourse for a refund of the phone or a free of cost replacement screen after the warranty period has ended (and still difficult before it ends).
It would be useful to the community, however, if you did buy and install a new screen and reported what happens.
And it is quite likely, also, to be the only way any traction can be made in discovering if the screen does in fact have a quality issue and is not fit for purpose. It would take several users in the same situation as well. Remember, before you lash out again we are ALL community users and bought our Pine64 products under the same terms and conditions as you.
(08-29-2021, 06:16 PM)lot378 Wrote: It is regrettable and I understand you, however those are the facts and explanation for why support tickets are shutdown or appear ignored - it was never good advice to recommend you or anyone else try that route. There is no recourse for a refund of the phone or a free of cost replacement screen after the warranty period has ended (and still difficult before it ends).
It would be useful to the community, however, if you did buy and install a new screen and reported what happens.
And it is quite likely, also, to be the only way any traction can be made in discovering if the screen does in fact have a quality issue and is not fit for purpose. It would take several users in the same situation as well. Remember, before you lash out again we are ALL community users and bought our Pine64 products under the same terms and conditions as you.
I think the frustration rather comes from Pine64 having been aware of this issue for months and seemingly being interested in user feedback to investigate the issue in the beginning (they said they were investigating, also asked for a faulty device to inspect it), but now apparently just deny the issue or at least don't respond to it at all. No updates, acknowledgement or anything else was given after the early info about investigation while the reports here are piling up. Having experienced Pine64 as a company that is usually very transparent and user (or rather developer) friendly and interested in working with the community, I also find this frustrating.
Anyway, my new screen should arrive soon, so I'll report back in half a year.
(08-29-2021, 06:16 PM)lot378 Wrote: It is regrettable and I understand you, however those are the facts and explanation for why support tickets are shutdown or appear ignored - it was never good advice to recommend you or anyone else try that route. There is no recourse for a refund of the phone or a free of cost replacement screen after the warranty period has ended (and still difficult before it ends).
It would be useful to the community, however, if you did buy and install a new screen and reported what happens.
And it is quite likely, also, to be the only way any traction can be made in discovering if the screen does in fact have a quality issue and is not fit for purpose. It would take several users in the same situation as well. Remember, before you lash out again we are ALL community users and bought our Pine64 products under the same terms and conditions as you.
@Lo378,
In my case, from the beginning, I've reported my usage of my PinePhone here : 2020-11-13 Image status. I've reported my errors, what's doesn't work, what'is working today, what I like, … I try to participate to the user community of the PinePhone and on other subjects.
In this thread, a particular hardware problem is discussed. It's normal for me. Or, may be you think that a hardware problem can't be discussed ? I suppose that your reply is 'no, it could be.'.
Now, the 'delamination' problem exist. A rare problem, but now I can't use my PinePhone, because a full line of the screen is died.
I've explained in my tickets, in my posts, that a understand that some problems could occur, that I accept this. I've proposed to send my PinePhone. In my idea, understand the origin of the problem is important.
Even if I bought a new screen, what's happen if the same problem occurs ? The cost for me is 50 % higher than the price of the screen. After, I must replace myself the screen, it's not so easy, but I accept this. An advantage of the PinePhone is to be able to replace each part, I like this.
I don't think that it is good for the community to have a hardware problem and to ignore it. At the moment, it's what do Pine64, the seller of the hardware.
Now, if in this thread we have no communication of Pine64, it's awkward. I could try to make many things to help the community in this particular problem, but at a moment, I can't make more. I need the help of Pine64 to continue to move forward.
Because of the silence of Pine64 in this thread, I've tried to open a ticket. The reply was :
Quote:Unfortunately, as per your order#151001 warranty is expired.
– All single board and accessories sold on the Pine Microsystems Inc. (PINE64) store are entitled to a 30 days Limited Warranty against defects in materials and workmanship.
I've proposed to send my screen. I've written that I understand that is difficult to send a free new screen in this situation and I've proposed to share the costs. I think it is a good solution, because there is no way to know if the problem will be present on the new screen if it provides from a bad batch.
But there is always no response from Pine64. This is the main problem. A problem could exist, the most important is how to solve it. A second ticket wasn't assigned : it will not be managed ! Always no communication, no way to discuss.
After more of one month of silence, I've open a thread : Pine64 quality of the hardware support : the PinePhone case. Always no communication, or proposition like 'Could you send your screen ?'.
In this thread, there is the following comment :
Quote:Would @Luke or @tllim care to comment what is going on? Why is the support team treating different people with the same issue differently?
So, I have send a private message to @ Luke and @ tllim, I'm waiting a reply at this moment.
To be complete about the management of this situation, please,
From more than one week, I see that the counter of view doesn't progress like any other counter. The thread will be forgotten in few days, because the counter of views doesn't progress as expected.
If Pine64 could communicate, the situation will be better.
If Pine64 propose that I send my screen and buy a new screen with a real discount (agree to discuss about this with Pine64), I will be happy. Why ?
- Because it's a solution that establish the existence of a particular problem that I can not solved with my soldering iron or a screwdriver.
- Because if the problem exists on the new screen, I know that there is an affordable solution.
- Because I can continue to use my sole smartphone, the PinePhone, as my daily phone.
- Because this show that Pine64 has the desire to solve the problems even if they are rare and they want to participate to the community.
- So I'm will be happy to buy some new Pine64's products. I was waiting for the new PinePhone's keyboard, the PineNote and other things.
- Because I could be confident in the hardware vendor 'Pine64'.
So my question is if the exact cause has been found and what it's reason was?
Was it heat like what was suggested?
and anyway, or if so, has it been fixed?
I heard the suggestion of limiting the thermal throttle temperature
but perhaps the screen/glue can be replaced or fixed with a different type with is more thermally and future resistive.
a other solution I came up with would be to add a metal plate/heatsink to the cpu and hot elements distributing the heat to the backside of the device and a greater surface area. as well as adding a thermally insulative layer to the back of the screen.
isolation behind the screen would in that case be a cheap fix, and adding a thermal pipe/plate to redirect the heat to the back would allow better cooling and performance, as well as safety, and the ability to connect a heatsink to the phone.
this could be done differently by changing the motherboard layout to put the cpu and such on the backside. this would ofcource need a slightly different approach to battery replacement, and would be a big change so might be something to experiment with for future versions like a pinephone2.
However if the phone can natively get to 110 degrees, I think thermal Shielding routing, conducting, and dissipation would be great thing to look to for future versions, especially since lithium-ion battery start to disintegrate above 60 degrees celsius, which means that parts of the battery that get hot start to lose capacity and die very fast. ofcource a future version might use graphene capacitors rather than a lithium battery, since as of currently graphene capacitors are publicly available with a similar energy storage to volume ration to lithium ion batteries, while having a much longer life time, being able to charge faster, being more efficient, etc. would also be a great promotion to have the first smartphone that can fully charge within a few seconds(to not melt metal), but that would also prevent or reduce all those other battery problems.
but for now heat shielding and routing would be a great option, even for people at home who replace their screen, since by adding a small thermally isolative layer to the back and adding a thermally conductive layer like aluim foil on top of that to spread out the heat,(and something to prevent the aluim sheet from causing short cirquit), then that might greatly extends the screens life while barely altering the screens width. since you only need 3 very thin layers, 1 termally insolative, 1 termally conductive, and optionally one electrically isolative, the layers can be very thin, because the conductive layer should spread out the heat enough to prevent super high heat spots, the tremally isolative layer is mostly a extra, the combination should allow both to be smaller in thickness).
Guys, why are you suprised about actions or lack of them by p64 ?
Look at the entire pbp history. This device is just faulty by design. Yet they haven't acknowledged problems that it has. What's more shocking they are knowingly and perfidiously want to produce next batch of this faulty thing and sell it as a properly working device.
They work with community ? No, they throw more and more devices at the community and say "make it work".
Why is this happening ? Because there will always be fanboys saying this bullshit about "community devices", " developers devices" and so on.
08-30-2021, 05:58 PM
(This post was last modified: 08-30-2021, 06:00 PM by lot378.)
It's off-topic but I agree about the Pinebook Pro -- the wish list for improvements and design fixes goes back 18 months and prior to that the community shared a lot of feedback. And yet, the circuitry for the PBP still remains unchanged and the wish list is unacknowledged except for being stuck to the top of the hardware forum. I think the production downtime this year was an ideal opportunity for Pine64 to address the wish list especially the flaws and re-enter production with an update later this year. That does not seem to have happened and it was an opportunity missed.
I am not 100% certain yet the same is happening with the PinePhone. The LCD screen failures could be "normal" or due to poor quality. The evidence may be difficult to obtain as facts because LCD screens are finicky things. Heat or mechanical pressure or both could have caused these failures. However, proving the quality is an issue in a fact based evidence way needs a methodical approach -- so has that happened yet? At least Pine64 are entering in to copyware i.e. the power box and PineNote that use reference designs. Less problems? I would not like to be the first user of PineNote that suffers issues with the e-ink display similar to those on the PinePhone! Nobody will enjoy the price of a replacement e-ink screen.
08-31-2021, 02:30 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2021, 02:35 AM by kern707.)
UPDATE:
just about a day after posting my report on the single full dead pixel column, now the second full column of dead pixels have appeared not too far from the first!! frustrating!
If this issue is so wide spread, it is a clear sign that it has nothing to do with the device being a "Developer beta", but with the source screen parts being faulty.
I have had and seen many very low-end dollar store products in my short life, who had some sort of a color LCD screen, and the screen never had such damage even after a full year of usage... and overall, a relatively small color LCD panel with a touch module integrated is not an expensive part even when sourcing good quality, even for low runs of just a few thousands.
No idea, at the moment I decided to avoid purchasing a replacement screen and replacing the screen, since as some of you said in the comments above, it would probably be the same batch of B-Class parts, that might start dying again after just a few months of usage.
The only way to go is pine64 offering QC-qualified replacement screens with a minimum 1 year no-questions-asked guarantee on them for device owners who have had their original screen go crap after 6 months or less, despite taking very well care of their device - after all, it doesn't matter if we improve the software to perfection, one of the most crucial parts in the device is faulty,
The "only for developers" fine print was not about buying faulty cheaply made hardware, it was about that the buyer should be aware that the device and the software that runs it are not yet stable enough for "mainsteam usage" - if the fine print was including something like that we should expect the device parts to go crap at every moment after purchase, very very few would dare to buy them, not even people such as our self who have got into this purely with the knowledge that it will take time until we can use it as a daily driver, and we wanted to support the cause and the project.
08-31-2021, 06:49 AM
(This post was last modified: 08-31-2021, 06:57 AM by lot378.)
Without exception on community devices, Pine64 only offer 30 days warranty for that you get a basic cost device and access to spare parts also at basic cost. Pine64 are never going to offer "QC-qualified replacement screens with a 1 year guarantee". And it is unproven conjecture that there is a poor quality batch of screens out there in circulation either fitted to phones or available as spares. For that expected level of warranty you would be paying Purism level prices for a phone and replacement parts. As said before, the closest you get to any kind of real warranty is via the Pine64 retail store.
Trying to negotiate for a discounted screen or a guarantee it will not go wrong again is an unreasonable position to take.
I said before that LCD screens can be finicky apparently the same applies to users :p
You're mixing "community" and "retail" pricing into the conversation which is irrelevant. Last time I checked, no PINE64 retail stores have opened up since the announcement and there has been no further information about the progress of setting these up; I think we can safely assume this project has been silently abandoned.
(08-31-2021, 06:49 AM)lot378 Wrote: Trying to negotiate for a discounted screen or a guarantee it will not go wrong again is an unreasonable position to take.
No, it's not. Re-read the updated OP. The support team had asked me, unprompted, to send in my phone with a faulty screen after I sent them a description and photos of the issue: "As per the LCD screen issue, you are required to ship the PinePhone without battery and accessories to the below address. As our engineer would like to find the root cause of the issue." They claimed they'll send me a replacement, again unprompted. It's been over a month however and they have yet to ship a replacement or my old phone back, giving me a non-working (most likely fake) shipment tracking number after inquiring about its status. I'm a aware that's a whole another issue, though it does not inspire confidence.
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