LAN/NIC problem

[jandvs]

Really?  This is the response?  Very disappointed in this product and their support.

Code:

support@pine64.org  Today at 3:18 PM
To    
James Smith
Message body
Hello James,

Thank you for communicating with support@pine64.org.

There are discussions at http://forum.pine64.org/ and we hope you join them for your issue discussion.

Warm regards,

support@pine64.org

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: James Smith
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 5:55 AM
To: Pine64 No-reply
Subject: Support Ticket #113. No response.

I opened a support ticket on 9/2/2016, but have not received any response.  https://support.pine64.org/portal/ticket/113

-------------------------------------------
Subj: Pine 64+ 2GB with defective gigabit port

I received my pine64 in June from the KickStarter campaign. I tried it out and had all sorts of trouble with all the different images.  I recently discovered it all came down to the ethernet port not working with gigabit.  Like many other's I've read about, it works when forcing it down to 100mb/s, but at gigabit speed, it gets severe packet loss and cannot establish any internet connections.

Can this board be replaced with one that works properly?

My backer number is: 19,892
My EMS Tracking# was: LS890677125CN

Thank you,
James Smith

[MarkHaysHarris777]

It looks like the support site is a third-party paid level one support center.

... as such their support is likely based on search and communications/ which is better than nothing, but entirely inadequate for the kind of support required for the GbE problem (sadly true).

[jandvs]

So basically, they don't want to own up to the fact that some of these have a problem.  Let alone no other gigabit device has a problem in my "network environment".  And those here that have multiple pine64's and some work and some don't.  I don't see how that can be anyway related to "network environment".

I'm going to send mine home with my friend that has a working one and see if complains about his "environment".

What is the Pine64 company doing about trying to find the real problem?  Seems like all they are willing to do is let the community try to figure it out.

Code:

Hello James,

In general, such situation sometimes due to network environment. We aware about such discussion at forum but there is no conclusive evidence that it is board hardware issue.

Hence, we are regret unable to replace you a new ones.

Warm regards,

support@pine64.org

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

[MarkHaysHarris777]

Well, ladies and gentlemen, this is precisely ( one of the reasons ) why I got so angry with tkaiser !

... I'm doing my level best to help you folks prove that this problem is hardware, and he spun the issue into a confusion of software related matters that were not only confusing, but were irrelevant !

What do you expect Pine Inc to say ?   No conclusive evidence for hardware failure.

The problem is not envronmental, and its not software. This is very clearly a hardware related issue, probably due to soldering quality and inconsistency of available components.  The community has to keep on keeping on !  Keep collecting the data, and keep working towards finding the root cause.

My next step is to reflow the entire area of the RLT8211E chip;  as well, the chip itself.  This is a huge risk, but what the dickens... its a $29 dollar experiment;  I probably won't hurt the board, and I may fix it.  We'll see... time will tell.  In the mean time, don't allow confussion to reign, and stay the course !

[androsch]

Well, ladies and gentlemen, this is precisely ( one of the reasons ) why I got so angry with tkaiser !

... I'm doing my level best to help you folks prove that this problem is hardware, and he spun the issue into a confusion of software related matters that were not only confusing, but were irrelevant !

What do you expect Pine Inc to say ?   No conclusive evidence for hardware failure.

The problem is not envronmental, and its not software. This is very clearly a hardware related issue, probably due to soldering quality and inconsistency of available components.  The community has to keep on keeping on !  Keep collecting the data, and keep working towards finding the root cause.

My next step is to reflow the entire area of the RLT8211E chip;  as well, the chip itself.  This is a huge risk, but what the dickens... its a $29 dollar experiment;  I probably won't hurt the board, and I may fix it.  We'll see... time will tell.  In the mean time, don't allow confussion to reign, and stay the course !

Well, even if you got angry about or with him, its no reason to kick him, but thats really off topic....

Agree to collect data about the issue, but also please allow data to be collected in a sensefull context and also in every possible direction. To nail the problem down to a hardware issue BEFORE really proofing it, is also not helpful!

[MarkHaysHarris777]

Agree to collect data about the issue, but also please allow data to be collected in a sensefull context and also in every possible direction. To nail the problem down to a hardware issue BEFORE really proofing it, is also not helpful!

oh... androsch, there is absolutely no question about this being a hardware issue... no question at all. 

... there is a difference between 'knowing' its hardware (and I KNOW its hardware) and having the 'data' to backup the root 'cause' of the hardware issue.  There is absolutely no question at this point that this is a hardware problem... it is, period.   But,  is the root cause components, soldering (cold joints), soldering open connections bridges cap issues, or missing components?   I am absolutely sure this issue is hardware, but I still don't know what the 'root' cause is.  But I am sure it is not environment, and I am sure it is not software.

[jandvs]

And I truly appreciate your effort, Mark. And I'll help anyway I can. Sorry I let my frustration with Pine64 Support get in the way. I would think it would be as obvious to them as to us, that this is a hardware issue.

What can I do? I don't feel confident in being able to reflow the chip. I'm handy with a soldering iron, but those pins are just too small for my eyes. And I don't have a heat gun.

[androsch]

And I truly appreciate your effort, Mark.  And I'll help anyway I can.  Sorry I let my frustration with Pine64 Support get in the way.  I would think it would be as obvious to them as to us, that this is a hardware issue.

What can I do?  I don't feel confident in being able to reflow the chip.  I'm handy with a soldering iron, but those pins are just too small for my eyes.  And I don't have a heat gun.

You will not really try to resolder a bad soldered chip on that board by yourself? Do you also rebuild the engine of a car you bought, even when its a really cheap one from a nice guy?

Let MHH do its test with resoldering, but i would really not see this as a possible solution or suggestion for anyone else. Its just a check from him, whether the soldering is part of the problem, but i personally would not even think about resoldering anything on the board. Eighter they accept this as the reason (if it really is) and the Pine64 guys have to redo the soldering at the producing company resp. they send me a new and good soldered board, or i will use it with 100mbps only and feeling a bit frustrated by this 'maybe' good piece of hardware....

---

Agree to collect data about the issue, but also please allow data to be collected in a sensefull context and also in every possible direction. To nail the problem down to a hardware issue BEFORE really proofing it, is also not helpful!

oh... androsch, there is absolutely no question about this being a hardware issue... no question at all. 

... there is a difference between 'knowing' its hardware (and I KNOW its hardware) and having the 'data' to backup the root 'cause' of the hardware issue.  There is absolutely no question at this point that this is a hardware problem... it is, period.   But,  is the root cause components, soldering (cold joints), soldering open connections bridges cap issues, or missing components?   I am absolutely sure this issue is hardware, but I still don't know what the 'root' cause is.  But I am sure it is not environment, and I am sure it is not software.

So please explain why my board run perfectly at longsleeps environment. It was the same piece of hardware and exactly the same as i used, because it even was my board! So it has not only something to do with the board itself but with anything related to it in the environment. Maybe its a switch in the software or a certain part of negotiating process or anything else. To find out what it is, needs to be open to all directions of failure and not limiting it to some directions you think it may be....

[MarkHaysHarris777]

So please explain why my board run perfectly at longsleeps environment. It was the same piece of hardware and exactly the same as i used, because it even was my board!

That's easy...  because its a hardware problem; allow me to explain.

... hardware problems are almost always NOT precisely reprocudable , and almost ARE always  interpmittent, not only within their own environment but also across environments-- and particularly if the issue is border-line.

To be more precise, your board was not 'fixed' nor 'corrected' in longsleep's environment; he just knows how to tune the boards so that regardless of their condition they function better;  but, its still the same board, and it still is not functioning correctly.  I will absolutely guarantee that my bad board will NOT run in longsleep's environment , period (because my board is NOT border-line... at Gbe, it doesn't work at all !-- its not about tuning... its about non function.  It has a serious hardware flaw.

Just to be complete here, software problems (on the other hand) are almost always reproducable , on every machine , in all environments.  If you do x, y, and z the software will fail like such and so !  Also, if you make a software correction (on all boards) then the problem ceases to exist on all boards.  If the problem is environmental, then the problem follows the environment (for all boards). 

We have the unique situation with my boards in that one of them works perfectly (GbE) and one of them does not work at all (GbE); the problem does not follow the software, and the problem does not follow the environment !  In fact, the environment that I created for testing is perfect-- honestly , there is no better environment on earth to test these boards than in my lab.  One of my boards works flawlessly, and the other one does not work at all.  The conclusion is 'conclusive' !  This problem is a hardware flaw (probably manufacturing flaw, as apposed to design flaw) on the boards themselves.

[jandvs]

Curious, Mark, Did you get both of those boards at the same time?  Or was one through the backer kit and the other purchased later?  Do they appear identical each other?

Here's pictures of my friends Pine64 that works perfectly.  I haven't had a chance to compare them to mine.  Tomorrow, i'll send my pine64 home with him to see what it does there.

back: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1JnN-bP...A07YdbUlcg
front: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1c_dhAn...4m4Gq88iAw

He was an early backer, but his got lost in shipping, so they sent him another one in July or Aug.  I got mine mid June.