connect lipo battery to euler bus

[jodybrown99]

i can't find an existing thread on this, so posting new.
can i connect a lipo battery directly to pin 3 on the euler bus (and ground on pin 6 of course)? that is, is this an V-IN pin or just V-OUT?
would i also have to connect a 10k resistor (or what kind of thermister?) to the temp sensor connection on pin 5? i suspect yes.
i dont have a 3 pin JST connector (still in the mail) but i did purchase a battery so i'd like to get the ball rolling here.

[pfeerick]

Yes, you can connect a lithium battery to the euler bus. You connect the +ve of the battery to pin 3 (Lithium Batt+), the -ve of the battery to pin 6 (GND, so really any GND pin will do), and pin 5 to GND via a 10k resistor (if you want the pine64 to charge the battery) to fool the temperature sensor protection.

If you want to use the temperature protection, all that should be needed is a thermistor (but what value you'd need I don't know... maybe a NTC 10K?? schematic seems to detail the state when there is no temp sensor). Or you could simply add a standard lipo protection circuit to be battery and connect to that instead. 

Any battery above 2Ah (2000mAh) capacity should be fine, as I have yet to see the pine64 charge a battery above 1A, which is a 0.5C (50% of capacity) charge rate, which any lithium battery that isn't a dud will take. You are simply better off with a higher capacity battery as it means it will be stressed less when charging, and will get reasonable run times off the battery. 

And yes, you'll need to move the jumper (if your board has one) from the DCINc position to the BAT position if you want the 5v output and the USB ports to work.

[UnixOutlaw]

Thanks pfeerick - YOU DA MAN!  Glad someone's paying attention...

I wish I'd read this thread some time ago... I've got a whole heap of jumper connectors (male and female) I could have used instead of messing about with those hideous teeny little female pins and crimping them and hooking up via the PH3 connector on the other side of the board...

I just took delivery of 4 x 2500 mAh batteries - I'm going to do this :

Wire up RED "+" to PIN3 on the EULER bus...
Wire up BLACK "-" PIN6 on the EULER bus
Wire up a 10k resistor to PIN5 on the EULER bus.

I don't really need 8000 mAh - as the Pine can mostly draw its power from the LapDock...  2500 should be plenty!

One day - when I (if) ever get all this running - I'm going to fire up InkScape and draw a PROPER usable (by human beings) board layout diagram!

And if I can get this working with my "desktop" Linux PINE - I'll do the same on my Armbian headless Pine...

[pfeerick]

Wire up RED "+" to PIN3 on the EULER bus...
Wire up BLACK "-" PIN6 on the EULER bus
Wire up a 10k resistor to PIN5 on the EULER bus.

No problem... just remember the other end of the 10k resistor connected to PIN5 goes to GND (so might as well connect to PIN6 also). I'll be curious to know how long your battery does last... my $20 8000ma ebay el-cheapo went from 3/4 of a day to 1/2 after a few daily cycles, so it wasn't that great... but it was ok for the price. I have a brand new 20V ALDI cordless tool battery here that I bought simply to scavenge the batteries, as they use 18650 cells, and it will cost more to get good quality batteries online! So that could become the base of my new power pack for the pine... 5x18650 batteries in separate holders... wired in parallel with protection PCBs... should keep it running for a while!

[UnixOutlaw]

Well that works a treat! Soldered jumper leads onto battery leads, a 10K resistor onto a jumper lead - plugged in and it all works (sorta)...

I can now close or open the lid on the Lapdock without shutting down Pine... Still a few issues... In the Power Manager Applet in XFCE Jessie - battery always "Charging (41%)"...

But aside from that - I'm a much happier camper now I can use Pine for "something"...

[UnixOutlaw]

So - I've now got my Pine64+ running on LiPo battery connected to the EULER bus headers...

IT seems to run fine for "most" of the time... But - I had PINE running on 2500 mAh battery from about 5pm this evening - till I got home from a meeting about 9:30 pm - when I took it out of my bag - it was shut off... So I'm getting less than 4.5 hours from 2500 mAh battery... As a comparison - I can get about 12 hours on an NTC CHIP running with a 2000 mAh battery...

[MarkHaysHarris777]

So - I've now got my Pine64+ running on LiPo battery connected to the EULER bus headers...

IT seems to run fine for "most" of the time...  But - I had PINE running on 2500 mAh battery from about 5pm this evening - till I got home from a meeting about 9:30 pm  - when I took it out of my bag - it was shut off...  So I'm getting less than 4.5 hours from 2500 mAh battery...  As a comparison - I can get about 12 hours on an NTC CHIP running with a 2000 mAh battery...

I looks like you're only getting less that 1/2 charge on that batt.  You should easily get 8-9 hours from that system;  I know because mine does !

[pfeerick]

So I'm getting less than 4.5 hours from 2500 mAh battery...  As a comparison - I can get about 12 hours on an NTC CHIP running with a 2000 mAh battery...

If that battery was fully charged, and was genuinely capable of 2500mah, I'd be thinking it was nearer to 6 hours. Is this with a wifi module? I'll have to check what the power consumption of the board is again... I seem to think it was in the 300mah range when idle... but it's been a while since I've seen the readings when not trying to flog the poor thing!

Hey MarkHaysHarris777, is that with the official battery? Is it holding it's capacity so far?

[MarkHaysHarris777]

So I'm getting less than 4.5 hours from 2500 mAh battery...  As a comparison - I can get about 12 hours on an NTC CHIP running with a 2000 mAh battery...

If that battery was fully charged, and was genuinely capable of 2500mah, I'd be thinking it was nearer to 6 hours. Is this with a wifi module? I'll have to check what the power consumption of the board is again... I seem to think it was in the 300mah range when idle... but it's been a while since I've seen the readings when not trying to flog the poor thing!

Hey MarkHaysHarris777, is that with the official battery? Is it holding it's capacity so far?

hi all, the lithium polymer batteries at 8000 mah /

... I have two of them;  one is blue and labeled with the silver Pine64 logo. The other is an unmarked silvered lipo of the same size (performance tests indicate that it is also 8000 mah.

Presuming an average current somewhere between 400 - 600 ma,  the maths say  about  13 - 20 hours (strictly speaking lots affects this, and the battery actually is a little larger, and the currents are actually a little less).

My lipo(s) hold both of my primary pine boards for 19.5 hours at idle before critical threshold shutdown. With everything connected ( gps, fan, LED lab, usb receiver, hdmi, and wifi board, my lipo(s) hold the unit up for an effective period of between  9 - 13 hours depending on what I do with it; in other words using it productively as a desktop PC all day; actively productive (realizing that all of this is entirely subjective).

In outlaw's case, he ought to be getting very close to 6 hours from a 2500 lipo.  I suspect his battery is really closer to 3000 mah, and that his currents are far less than a fully loaded fully active system (but I don't know).  If its not a three wire system I suspect it is not being fully charged;  but of course, I don't know that either.

In any case a 'real' 2500 mah lipo battery is tiny.  The 8000 mah batts are 4.5 x 2.5 x .25 inches ( 11.5 x 6.5 x .7 cm )  The tiny batteries are susceptible to over charging and explosion because the PMIC has a stronger charge rate than most cell phones, &c.  This is particularly true if the saftey protocols are being bypassed without the thermister monitor for the PMIC.

(much of this is subjective speculation, YMMV)

[pfeerick]

So they are holding their capacity so far? They haven't started dropping in run-time (yet)? Just curious as the 8000mah battery I have (which is the right dimensions and weight for it's stated capacity) just doesn't seem to be up to the task... I wanted it to run for about 16 hours on / 8 hours charge, but it doesn't seem like it'll be up to the task without pushing the battery right to it's limit.

Yeah, UnixOutlaw is using a modified 3-wire system, and as I said earlier, I would have expected nearer to 6 hours. I just measured my pine64+ 1GB w/ wifi again, and with 5.07v via the microUSB, it averages 290ma when idle and 350ma if the SSH console is active. Probably wouldn't be such a jump if I was using the ethernet or serial terminal. But if I use the average of the two for an 'idle-ish' state, a 2500mah battery should actually get just under 8 hours. For a 4.5 hour run-time, that battery would be nearer to 1500mah... certainly not what it says on the label! This is of course is flogging the battery right down to zero, so the other factor to consider is what voltage the PMIC decides is flat, and do a emergency poweroff! Will be interesting to find out if it's the default 2.9V, meaning you should be able to get ever last bit out of a lithium battery, or if it's set a bit higher.

Also, I don't think the charge current is anywhere as high as you think it is... the AXP209 AXP803 is capable of charge currents of up to 2.8A, but I haven't seen the pine64 report anything above 600ma charge current, so it certainly isn't configured that way on mine, and I haven't touched the AXP registers. The AXP209 AXP803 defaults to 1200mA. (automatic determination based on input supply stability so it looks like it must be limiting to 500mA ... but then again, the register defaults also indicate the charge LED should work out of the box, so some register settings certainly appear to have been changed to less than optimal settings!

btw UnixOutlaw... the A64 processor in the pine64 isn't as efficient as the R8 on the CHIP. It is also a bit faster (1.2Ghz vs 1Ghz), and has a few other bits and pieces to power also. Compared the the pine64, the CHIP idles at around 230-250mA and fully loaded, is around 490-600mA. The pine64 can easily pull 900ma or more when loaded, so when loaded it can flatten a battery twice as quickly

... I have two of them;  one is blue and labeled with the silver Pine64 logo. The other is an unmarked silvered lipo of the same size (performance tests indicate that it is also 8000 mah.