PINE64
Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - Printable Version

+- PINE64 (https://forum.pine64.org)
+-- Forum: PineTab (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=140)
+--- Forum: PineTab Software (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=142)
+--- Thread: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? (/showthread.php?tid=18227)

Pages: 1 2 3

Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - BlueGalaxy - 05-13-2023

I am a student of Computer Science, finishing my Junior year. I know quite a bit about Linux, I am comfortable working in the command line and commonly used commands. I also have a rudimentary knowledge of C programming and how to compile applications using Makefile.
I am also paranoid about security and privacy. Specifically, I don't want my tablet to be discretely recording my camera or microphone, and wirelessly sending that data to some corporate/government server.
 
The only reason for why I am seeking to buy a tablet is watching lectures on the go. I download mp4 files of lectures on my PC, copy them over to a USB drive, then copy them from the USB drive onto my tablet's file system. Then I would navigate to where these mp4 files have been copied to, and open them in a video player software, maximize to full screen, and simply watch the video. I want to transfer files via USB drive, or a USB cable connected directly to the computer, no any wireless file transfers or cloud storage. That is the only functionality that I am looking for. I do not want any bells or whistles. In fact, that is undesirable for me.
 
So I found this tablet PINETAB2 – 10.1″ 4GB/64GB ARM Based Linux Tablet With Detachable Backlit Keyboard [Pre-Order, Delivery Mid-May]
https://pine64.com/product/pinetab2-10-1-4gb-64gb-linux-tablet-with-detached-backlit-keyboard/
  • The PineTab2 ships with DanctNix Arch Linux installed. The preinstalled OS is still in beta –  most core functionality works but some features (e.g. cameras) remain a work-in-progress.

I see that it has DanctNix Arch Linux installed. I have used Ubuntu Linux before, so using a Linux OS is familiar for me. There is one sentence here that I don't understand.
"The preinstalled OS is still in beta –  most core functionality works but some features (e.g. cameras) remain a work-in-progress."
If this preinstalled OS is still in beta, I wonder what do they mean by "most core functionality"? If the drivers for the cameras or microphone aren't implemented yet, that's a good thing for me, because I have privacy considerations. I don't want the tablet spying on me, I want a very minimalist device.
The only functionality that should be working is the ability to open a video file, and play it in some video player software for me, using the speaker/earphones. Since I will be watching lectures on the bus, I need the earphones driver to work. And obviously I need the touch screen driver to work, otherwise it wouldn't be operational.
I am also questioning, are there any video players softwares available for an OS like this? I am a bit of a nerd myself, but I am not a "super nerd". If I have to download a free open source code from Github, and compile the software, that's fine. If some dependencies or packages need to be installed, that's also fine. But if I need to recompile the entire damn kernel just to add a new driver in, that's where I bail out.
 
TLDR, my question is ... Is this DanctNix Arch Linux useable as an OS for a tablet? It doesn't have to be "fully complete", it just has to have the bare minimum features for me to work on it. If I have to perform file operations mv cp via the bash shell just to get around the file system, that's fine. I already know how to do that. But it absolutely needs to be able to respond to touch screen events, for me to select which lecture I want to watch. There should be a video player application supporting jumping to an arbitrary location in the video, and adjusting the volume controls. If I have to compile it myself, that's fine, as long as there's not too many hoops that I would have to jump through. The audio driver also has to work, because I will be using earphones for listening to what the professor is saying.
 
Can anyone please help me make a decision, is this the right hardware or the right OS for me, having known my requirements? Does anyone have information about the  DanctNix Arch Linux OS? I understand that this OS is still in development today. But I want to know, are enough features already implemented for it to fit my use case, of opening and viewing mp4 files that are stored on the local filesystem?

RE: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - fxc - 05-14-2023

General rule of thumb with Pine devices is that if the software state is a concern, it is not recommended to buy the early adopters batch, which this is. Don't forget about differences in the architecture as well (ARM64 vs x86-64), this will make a difference with areas such as the DRM protection in videos or if you want to execute applications.

Mind that you can run Linux just fine on most Windows tablets, don't entrap yourself by thinking the PineTab is the only option.

RE: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - KC9UDX - 05-14-2023

It's Arch.  Arch is a very divisive thing.  You either absolutely hate it, or you claim to absolutely love it.  Arch is not Ubuntu.

I would expect it can run 'mplayer'.  But you're likely to find the PineTab underpowered if you're used to typical modern x86 systems.

You're not limited to Arch.  One of the many nice things about Pine64 products is the wide variety of operating systems.  Currently, ready-to-go images are available for Manjaru (which is also Arch-based), Mobian, pmOS, Sailfish, and UBPorts (which is Ubuntu!).  There are other operating systems you can run on it, but that involves some work.

RE: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - BlueGalaxy - 05-14-2023

(05-14-2023, 07:18 AM)KC9UDX Wrote: I would expect it can run 'mplayer'.

I am not familiar with 'mplayer'. According to this video it seems that it can play video files yes, but only in sequential order. I need a fully featured video player that supports pausing, rewinding, jumping to arbitrary points in the video, and raising/lowering the volume.

(05-14-2023, 07:18 AM)KC9UDX Wrote: But you're likely to find the PineTab underpowered if you're used to typical modern x86 systems.

What do you mean by that? Do you mean underpowered as not having as many (software) features? Or underpowered meaning the processor is not as powerful as modern x86 systems? All it needs to do is play videos for me. I've worked with Raspberry Pi before. If it's at least that level, that it's fine. Or underpowered meaning that the electrical power is low? I need the battery to be useable for 6 hours, without a power cord.

(05-14-2023, 07:18 AM)KC9UDX Wrote: You're not limited to Arch.  One of the many nice things about Pine64 products is the wide variety of operating systems.  Currently, ready-to-go images are available for Manjaru (which is also Arch-based), Mobian, pmOS, Sailfish, and UBPorts (which is Ubuntu!).  There are other operating systems you can run on it, but that involves some work.

How much work? And what technical level?
Are there tutorials about how to install other operating systems on it?
The main concern for me is time. If it takes an inordinate amount of time to install another OS on it, particularly if DactNix Arch Linux OS supports my use case, then I will just use it, and not bothering with installing another OS instead.

RE: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - fxc - 05-14-2023

(05-14-2023, 11:30 AM)BlueGalaxy Wrote:
(05-14-2023, 07:18 AM)KC9UDX Wrote: I would expect it can run 'mplayer'.

I am not familiar with 'mplayer'. According to this video it seems that it can play video files yes, but only in sequential order. I need a fully featured video player that supports pausing, rewinding, jumping to arbitrary points in the video, and raising/lowering the volume.

(05-14-2023, 07:18 AM)KC9UDX Wrote: But you're likely to find the PineTab underpowered if you're used to typical modern x86 systems.

What do you mean by that? Do you mean underpowered as not having as many (software) features? Or underpowered meaning the processor is not as powerful as modern x86 systems? All it needs to do is play videos for me. I've worked with Raspberry Pi before. If it's at least that level, that it's fine. Or underpowered meaning that the electrical power is low? I need the battery to be useable for 6 hours, without a power cord.

(05-14-2023, 07:18 AM)KC9UDX Wrote: You're not limited to Arch.  One of the many nice things about Pine64 products is the wide variety of operating systems.  Currently, ready-to-go images are available for Manjaru (which is also Arch-based), Mobian, pmOS, Sailfish, and UBPorts (which is Ubuntu!).  There are other operating systems you can run on it, but that involves some work.

How much work? And what technical level?
Are there tutorials about how to install other operating systems on it?
The main concern for me is time. If it takes an inordinate amount of time to install another OS on it, particularly if DactNix Arch Linux OS supports my use case, then I will just use it, and not bothering with installing another OS instead.

Those mentioned operating systems are not available on the PineTab2, the user thought you ask about the regular PineTab.

Please do not consider the PineTab2 at this point any further, it hasn't even shipped yet and is in an very early software state, including buggy WiFi, lack of Bluetooth, lack of working cameras and probably a lot more issues.

RE: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - BlueGalaxy - 05-14-2023

(05-14-2023, 02:43 PM)fxc Wrote: Those mentioned operating systems are not available on the PineTab2, the user thought you ask about the regular PineTab.

Please do not consider the PineTab2 at this point any further, it hasn't even shipped yet and is in an very early software state, including buggy WiFi, lack of Bluetooth, lack of working cameras and probably a lot more issues.

My tablet doesn't need WiFi, Bluetooth, or working cameras. In fact, I consider that a plus. Because I want to use my tablet as just a screen that I can carry around. I don't want it to have any wireless connectivity capabilties, I don't want it to connect with the cloud, and I don't want it be spying on me.

Please answer my question, can I play videos, stored on the local filesystem, on this device, and be able to pause the video and jump to arbitrary locations? That's all I need.
Please tell me is this OS the same as regular Arch Linux? Can I install any applications that I want onto it? Can I use pacman installer? Alternatively, can I download the source code for VLC or MPV and build the application on the tablet itself?

I see on the original listing that the community price is $90 cheaper than the retail price. That is a lot of money for me.
It also says delivery Mid-May. What do you mean it hasn't even shipped yet? It is 5/14/2023.
https://pine64.com/product/pinetab2-10-1-4gb-64gb-linux-tablet-with-detached-backlit-keyboard/

RE: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - fxc - 05-14-2023

(05-14-2023, 03:03 PM)BlueGalaxy Wrote:
(05-14-2023, 02:43 PM)fxc Wrote: Those mentioned operating systems are not available on the PineTab2, the user thought you ask about the regular PineTab.

Please do not consider the PineTab2 at this point any further, it hasn't even shipped yet and is in an very early software state, including buggy WiFi, lack of Bluetooth, lack of working cameras and probably a lot more issues.

My tablet doesn't need WiFi, Bluetooth, or working cameras. In fact, I consider that a plus. Because I want to use my tablet as just a screen that I can carry around. I don't want it to have any wireless connectivity capabilties, I don't want it to connect with the cloud, and I don't want it be spying on me.

Please answer my question, can I play videos, stored on the local filesystem, on this device, and be able to pause the video and jump to arbitrary locations? That's all I need.
Please tell me is this OS the same as regular Arch Linux? Can I install any applications that I want onto it? Can I use pacman installer? Alternatively, can I download the source code for VLC or MPV and build the application on the tablet itself?

I see on the original listing that the community price is $90 cheaper than the retail price. That is a lot of money for me.
It also says delivery Mid-May. What do you mean it hasn't even shipped yet? It is 5/14/2023.
https://pine64.com/product/pinetab2-10-1-4gb-64gb-linux-tablet-with-detached-backlit-keyboard/

I don't know if that functionality works, there is only a handful of developers who have the device in their hand right now. Video decoding is probably not working very well and not in all applications (https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Quartz64_Development#Upstreaming_Status).

The preinstalled distribution is Arch Linux ARM (not regular desktop Arch) with the additional repos from the DanctNIX community and patches.

Community price is the price on pine64.com, the retail price is for affiliate shops.

Things will take months or maybe even years to get stable, please wait until people have the device in their hand and can develop on it. Then you can also have more clear statements what works and have more software options that an alpha state operating system.

RE: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - diederik - 05-14-2023

(05-14-2023, 03:29 PM)fxc Wrote: Video decoding is probably not working very well and not in all applications (https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Quartz64_Development#Upstreaming_Status).

For both VLC and MPV it would only use CPU based decoding. Both use ffmpeg and VLC hasn't even transitioned to ffmpeg 5 and from that Upstreaming Status page you can see that there's not much progress wrt Hardware based decoding ... for 2.5 years now.

RE: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - BlueGalaxy - 05-14-2023

(05-14-2023, 04:01 PM)diederik Wrote:
(05-14-2023, 03:29 PM)fxc Wrote: Video decoding is probably not working very well and not in all applications (https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/Quartz64_Development#Upstreaming_Status).

For both VLC and MPV it would only use CPU based decoding. Both use ffmpeg and VLC hasn't even transitioned to ffmpeg 5 and from that Upstreaming Status page you can see that there's not much progress wrt Hardware based decoding ... for 2.5 years now.

I see on that page it says
Video Decode  GStreamer only, no ffmpeg[7]

So if both VLC and MPV use ffmpeg, then they won't work?

Also on that same page it says

Current Status
Working
  • eMMC
  • SDMMC0 (SD cards)
  • GMAC (Gigabit Ethernet)
  • USB 2.0
  • SATA 2
  • SATA 3
  • UART
    • UART 0 (Pi-bus)
    • UART 1 (Bluetooth)
    • UART 2 (Pi-bus, debug)
  • Video Decode
    • VP8
    • H.264
  • Video Encode
    • JPEG (it's pretty bad)
  • Battery
  • GPU
  • Audio
    • Analog audio works
    • SPDIF works
    • HDMI works
  • SPI — works, user needs to modify device tree to add devices
  • I2C — works, user needs to modify device tree to add devices

I am interested in the Video Encode, Video Decode, and Audio sections.
Can you explain what these terms are, what does this mean? If I have an application video player, would it be runnable under current configurations?
(05-14-2023, 02:43 PM)fxc Wrote: Those mentioned operating systems are not available on the PineTab2, the user thought you ask about the regular PineTab.

On this website I can see two kinds of Pinetabs:
https://pine64.com/product-category/pinetab/

There is the PINETAB2, the ARM version, which has a DectNix Arch Linux already installed.
And there is the PINETAB-V, the RISC-V version, which has no OS installed?

Are you suggesting that I should get the one without the OS, and install one of the OS's mentioned above onto it? It it hard to do for someone who has an intermediate level of Computer Science knowledge? Basically, does one need to be a Senior Engineer in order to install an OS onto that device, or can I figure it out by myself, using the documentation, ChatGPT, and this forum as assistance?
(05-14-2023, 02:43 PM)fxc Wrote: Those mentioned operating systems are not available on the PineTab2, the user thought you ask about the regular PineTab.

Please do not consider the PineTab2 at this point any further, it hasn't even shipped yet and is in an very early software state, including buggy WiFi, lack of Bluetooth, lack of working cameras and probably a lot more issues.


(05-14-2023, 02:43 PM)fxc Wrote: Those mentioned operating systems are not available on the PineTab2, the user thought you ask about the regular PineTab.

Please do not consider the PineTab2 at this point any further, it hasn't even shipped yet and is in an very early software state, including buggy WiFi, lack of Bluetooth, lack of working cameras and probably a lot more issues.


(05-14-2023, 02:43 PM)fxc Wrote: Those mentioned operating systems are not available on the PineTab2, the user thought you ask about the regular PineTab.

Please do not consider the PineTab2 at this point any further, it hasn't even shipped yet and is in an very early software state, including buggy WiFi, lack of Bluetooth, lack of working cameras and probably a lot more issues.


RE: Does DactNix Arch Linux support my use case? - Kevin Kofler - 05-14-2023

It is unfortunate that they already stopped producing the original PineTab (and no longer have any in stock either), since it will be a while until the PineTab 2 is ready for prime time.
(05-14-2023, 06:39 PM)BlueGalaxy Wrote: On this website I can see two kinds of Pinetabs:
https://pine64.com/product-category/pinetab/

There is the PINETAB2, the ARM version, which has a DectNix Arch Linux already installed.
And there is the PINETAB-V, the RISC-V version, which has no OS installed?

Are you suggesting that I should get the one without the OS, and install one of the OS's mentioned above onto it?
No, that one is even less likely to be ready for prime time.

The one that people have experience with (the original PineTab) is unfortunately no longer being sold.