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+--- Forum: General (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=74)
+--- Thread: Why still force us on paypal (/showthread.php?tid=16888)
Why still force us on paypal - Jantje - 06-24-2022
I am angry at pine64 for still using paypal as the only option to pay, even with a creditcard.
I wanted to buy something that was only available on your general website and not the eu one, it forced me to use paypal and create an account.
Which i did. then it cancelled my payment because paypal wanted me to upload my ID card.
What is this for nonesense!
I tried for hours to close my paypal account.
Edit: i removed the i will never buy again part from the message, as soon as i can pay with just creditcard i would be happy to buy again. i was just angry paypal made the whole experience even worse than before! Its like they mis use the power that they are being given by people having to use them with creditcard payments.
Its so malicious!
RE: Why still force us on paypal - zetabeta - 06-24-2022
(06-24-2022, 03:52 AM)Jantje Wrote: I am angry at pine64 for still using paypal as the only option to pay, even with a creditcard.in some countries, it's possible to buy without an account using paypal if you uncheck some options, like conversion protection.
I wanted to buy something that was only available on your general website and not the eu one, it forced me to use paypal and create an account.
Which i did. then it cancelled my payment because paypal wanted me to upload my ID card.
What is this for nonesense!
I tried for hours to close my paypal account and decided not to buy anything from your shop again!
still, i think there should be other options than paypal and without an account. when i bought my previous pinephone, stripe was an option.
in e.u., bank payments could be an option, but it helps only e.u. customers.
RE: Why still force us on paypal - wpeckham - 06-24-2022
Frankly PayPal worked better for me than any other options, and seems more secure.
I have a few small issues with Pine64, but leaning on PayPal is not one of them. That said, my obtaining a PayPal account was painless, and had I had issue with them my opinion might match yours.
I am sorry that you had a poor experience!
RE: Why still force us on paypal - biketool - 06-26-2022
A crypto payment system would be 100% safe(no claw-back/chargeback of payments) for Pine64 and bypasses the volatility of crypto vs. fiat$$ if an instant-convert to fiat(for pine64) web payment system is used.
Considering the privacy hype the PP has received in tech media a crypto purchase option would fit with the reputation earned with the available hardware/software options.
Probably the big 3 coins BTC, ETH, LTC, as well as maybe XMR would be the most useful options with a link to somewhere where other coins could be converted.
Since bitcoin ATMs are a thing now even in suburban shopping malls it seems like a useful way to bypass traditional banking(Visa/Mastercard, etc.) and those scammers at PayPal(who could freeze Pine64s account at a whim) and their % take from every sale.
It would also be good for crypto, another step moving from the current speculative asset stage back to crypto as money to pay for legal to own stuff on the internet.
RE: Why still force us on paypal - fxc - 06-26-2022
(06-24-2022, 03:52 AM)Jantje Wrote: I am angry at pine64 for still using paypal as the only option to pay, even with a creditcard.
I wanted to buy something that was only available on your general website and not the eu one, it forced me to use paypal and create an account.
Which i did. then it cancelled my payment because paypal wanted me to upload my ID card.
What is this for nonesense!
I tried for hours to close my paypal account and decided not to buy anything from your shop again!
Mind that the EU shop isn't live yet, you were probably on the wrong page, correct link is https://pine64eu.com/
RE: Why still force us on paypal - wpeckham - 06-26-2022
Crypto has not proven 100% safe for ANYTHING yet. I am thinking it needs kinds of regulation to be both dependable and safe that have not yet been invented.
RE: Why still force us on paypal - biketool - 06-26-2022
I am not finding a way that a instant convert to fiat cryptocurrency purchasing system is reasonably unsafe for Pine64, the customer pays or divides the conversion and banking fees and P64 in our example gets dollars or euros into its business account within minutes pricing their products live adjusted for the spot fiat to crypto exchange rate. Paying for things with crypto is fraught for the exact reasons it is safe for the receiver(especially if they instantly cash-out removing almost all volatility risk), there is no way for the buyer to force a refund or arbitration unless a third-party escrow and arbitration service is included. Crypto is nearly instant as a transaction 'clears' and then continues to confirm itself on the blockchain within a few minutes; delivery takes far longer to fulfill, the buyer accepts all of the risk in a direct peer-to-peer crypto pay-first purchase model.
Even with that risk I am sure that there would be those who for purity of ideals reasons would like to use crypto to pay despite the buyer side risk.
There is also the risk of fumble fingers getting a wrong destination address, same as with a SWIFT transfer, but for most crypto coins a transfer sent to the wrong wallet is irreversible especially if the address targets a not-yet-established or abandoned wallet. Again buyer side risk.
Now you can stop reading, but if you continue I ask you to indulge me; I am one of the unfortunates who in addition to tech wasted years in school on things like a finance MBA and yet has long liked the idea of using cryptographically verifiable 'coins' and NFT type decentralized titles/receipts/event tickets(not ape PNGs) in addition to PGP/GPG signatures which prove that I am the holder of my secret key.
Ideally crypto as a value carrier would offer a zero trust required remittance option for anyone who can get/buy/mine some 'coin' that is too-expensive-to-profit-from-hacks(still can grift anything) cryptographicaly verifiable Hawala. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala A value transfer option for those who have been repeatedly burned by the current banking and investing systems, along with way too much is hopium and fantasy. But there is a real use case for a fungible trustworthy utility-market-valued non-counterfitable payment system. The problem now is that high finance has turned crypto into rare baseball card Beany Baby get rich quick dream/scams.
Gold is backed by the price of mining more, the US$ is backed by petrodollars and the US Navy, the Yen by Japanese exports, for crypt to become truly valuable it would need to delink from fiat and become valuable as a trusted way to move value like the petrodollar is used to transfer energy and work-power. Bitcoin and its publicly mineable but electrically and ASIC expensive blockchain did this in the old silk road drug market days, it was useful and truly valued and valuable as a safe(at the time) way to transfer value for the purchase of illegal narcotics. That true but controversial valuation was ruined by an openly ponzi pyramid mass hysteria where no useful value is added and everyone is looking for their 1:100,000 gains moonshot not a money substitute. I dont like BTC because as a speculative asset its ability to hold value is unreliable, BTC for value-transfer users have to always quickly cash out to avoid the price/value volatility. BTC also lays bare the finances and transaction history of every fractional coin and wallet in existence from mining the first block to last transfer, there is no privacy.
It takes time for something as functionally an-cap as the state of cryptocurrency to mature, for improvements to occur to the devs contributing and forking projects, but I feel like it is for many a reach for a market substitute by people who feel they have been grifted by the current banking and investment rule-of-law situation.
Bring up the topic with me again in 5, 10, 20, or 30 years.
RE: Why still force us on paypal - Atchoum_et_les_7_nains - 06-27-2022
(06-26-2022, 11:28 AM)fxc Wrote:(06-24-2022, 03:52 AM)Jantje Wrote: I am angry at pine64 for still using paypal as the only option to pay, even with a creditcard.
I wanted to buy something that was only available on your general website and not the eu one, it forced me to use paypal and create an account.
Which i did. then it cancelled my payment because paypal wanted me to upload my ID card.
What is this for nonesense!
I tried for hours to close my paypal account and decided not to buy anything from your shop again!
Mind that the EU shop isn't live yet, you were probably on the wrong page, correct link is https://pine64eu.com/
Super recently bought a rock64 that works very well...
I could pay at first with mastercard through paypal checkout but it is not possible anymore, tried to purchase a pinephone because the concept is fire, but the checkout poor choice is lame(becasue of paypal), it just gives me the will to go back on a good bad google device that I can buy.
Plus this poor choice is totally going backwards for a brand that puts kill switches for cameras, micros, etc, etc...
Just add mastercard at least, it'd stop making people open topics for complaining
Thanks for reading, there's absolutely no offense , just would love to see this brand more accessible, in my opininon, you should listen to your customers
RE: Why still force us on paypal - zetabeta - 06-28-2022
i test the store purchase, not actually purchasing. in my country finland, it's not possible to buy without paypal account anymore. (unless something very complicated i missed).
to clarify, i'm not against pine store account. actually it might be good idea for returns, issues and tickets. it's that third party account and particularly paypal the company and its corporate policies, which is problematic.
i'm not convinced about crypto. cryptos are intended for exchange of medium, but quite often it is a some kind investment system. and scammers use it as well. cryptos are marketed as a decentralized system, but i'm not so convinced. cryptos are built by small group initially and rules are frozen, thus crypto is not controlled by community of crypto users.
RE: Why still force us on paypal - Jantje - 06-28-2022
(06-28-2022, 01:17 AM)zetabeta Wrote: i test the store purchase, not actually purchasing. in my country finland, it's not possible to buy without paypal account anymore. (unless something very complicated i missed).
to clarify, i'm not against pine store account. actually it might be good idea for returns, issues and tickets. it's that third party account and particularly paypal the company and its corporate policies, which is problematic.
i'm not convinced about crypto. cryptos are intended for exchange of medium, but quite often it is a some kind investment system. and scammers use it as well. cryptos are marketed as a decentralized system, but i'm not so convinced. cryptos are built by small group initially and rules are frozen, thus crypto is not controlled by community of crypto users.
I agree totally, I am just against paypal because they are a terrible company often times trying to mis handle small business, as I am against that and want to support small businesses I rather not use paypal at all. I got a creditcard just for this reason to find out I still need to use them to make payments with creditcards.
Its like all the big companies do, first they take over the market, then they force you to use them
.I don't have crypto so i can't comment on that but for me the solution would be to be able to use my creditcard directly and not trough paypal since they abuse the whole process.
Its angering since I love pine products and the community behind it.