inquiring about PP and tracking-newbie

inquiring about PP and tracking-newbie - Printable Version

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inquiring about PP and tracking-newbie - rocketman122 - 12-25-2020

bravo to the guys who pushed this forward. it happened by accident that triggered me to research and ultimately realize how much privacy I dont have. I think I was asleep in the matrix like many people are. freely giving every information about myself. feeling I could trust google. not anymore.

the trigger in me was with my phone. I turned it on and icons changed. I researched that and then realized how much privacy we dont have. since then I turned off everything I could, force stopping/disabling everything i can and I dont even browse on it. ever. it was googles mistake. had they not done that and ran things in the background, I would have never known.

let me get right down to it. I watch videos on PP to learn about it. ive used android and ios but know nothing of linux or PP. one specific video was this person installing pureos (this is the librem5 os, correct?) on the PP. within the first minute I saw the overview of setting up and a screen forcing him to opt in for location. oh no thats not good. does PP software have a forced opt in for tracking?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT9XUkui4zs
in the 1:00 mark.

for me, realizing how much is being tracked with any android phone. made me look for options. Im curious regarding how much can be disabled with the PP so no tracking or data is being taken.

I dont plan on browsing on it. I will need a chat app. whatsapp is out. telegram with their new ads' is out, so maybe signal. otherwise will be happy to just use sms. anyone want, they can call. gps maps I will need and the basics like calculator sms and thats pretty much it. this trigger was a few months ago and since then I hardly want to use my phone.

I realize the PP is privacy aimed and features is not critical. thats fine by me. but seeing the video of the guy forced to opt in for location is a worry for me. I dont have anything to hide but no respect to a persons privacy and constant tracking really gets me worked up.

ive erased my fb, this used old laptop I use now (just for browsing) uses w10 (horrible)and its getting downgraded back to w7. I plan to install linux on another spare 2nd pc and learn that in parallel as it will be too frustrating for me to make a cold turkey switch.

besides this I see many videos of people showing issues with the software but im glad the option is there and in time will get better so really psyched . I read many posts here to learn about the PP as well. all in all, I think its wonderful.
I wish I could convert my brother but hes mac fanboy ostrich with head in the sand, which also happned by accident because of his buggy HTC windows mobile.

stay safe and merry christmas

RE: inquiring about PP and tacking-newbie - rocketman122 - 12-25-2020

ok, definitely got some reasurance here with this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTC28AWnCyk

for me threat number 2 (internet giants) is exactly what my worries is about. I dont live in the US so less issues with 3 letter govt agencies. maybe in my country they have some but im less worried. I dont plan to have important data like sensitive pictures or documentss on it so not worried for hackers. PP is looking really nice with Plasma

I do need to learn how to flash different os and such. still doing research.

RE: inquiring about PP and tacking-newbie - ryo - 12-28-2020

(12-25-2020, 08:15 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: bravo to the guys who pushed this forward. it happened by accident that triggered me to research and ultimately realize how much privacy I dont have. I think I was asleep in the matrix like many people are. freely giving every information about myself. feeling I could trust google. not anymore.

That's the first step into the great awakening, but probably you still have a longer way to go than you think.
I thought I woke up in 2014, but kept finding out that there were still many layers of matrix before I finally got my way out of it 6 months ago.

(12-25-2020, 08:15 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: the trigger in me was with my phone. I turned it on and icons changed. I researched that and then realized how much privacy we dont have. since then I turned off everything I could, force stopping/disabling everything i can and I dont even browse on it. ever. it was googles mistake. had they not done that and ran things in the background, I would have never known.

This is not really a privacy issue, this is rather the issue of having a lack of freedom.
Ultimately no privacy and no freedom go hand in hand, but changing icons against your will isn't really what I consider a privacy issue.

And it's not Google's mistake, Google is spying on you by design.
It's called an advertisement company for a reason.

(12-25-2020, 08:15 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: let me get right down to it. I watch videos on PP to learn about it. ive used android and ios but know nothing of linux or PP. one specific video was this person installing pureos (this is the librem5 os, correct?) on the PP. within the first minute I saw the overview of setting up and a screen forcing him to opt in for location. oh no thats not good. does PP software have a forced opt in for tracking?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT9XUkui4zs
in the 1:00 mark.

PureOS is the OS that comes on the Librem 5 by default.
The screen was not forcing him to opt in, the options were turned off by default even.
He could have just tapped "Next" without enabling it, no idea why he even said that you have to opt in.

This same screen does pop up on other distro's using Phosh after the first boot, but once again, you don't have to opt in if you don't want to.
Also, there's no PP software, Pine64 doesn't make any software, they just use whatever is already available, and in turn donate to them.

(12-25-2020, 08:15 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: for me, realizing how much is being tracked with any android phone. made me look for options. Im curious regarding how much can be disabled with the PP so no tracking or data is being taken.

You can use the hardware kill switches if you want to be absolutely sure, but you won't be able to use internet connection if you turn off GPS since it's using the same modem.

(12-25-2020, 08:15 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: I dont plan on browsing on it. I will need a chat app. whatsapp is out. telegram with their new ads' is out, so maybe signal. otherwise will be happy to just use sms. anyone want, they can call. gps maps I will need and the basics like calculator sms and thats pretty much it. this trigger was a few months ago and since then I hardly want to use my phone.

I'm sorry to say, but here you start going completely against what you just said.
In order to use GPS maps, you'll need to use location service tracking.
Without it, GPS won't work.
Maps will work, but you won't be able to navigate with it, just scroll through it like on Google Maps on your PC.

As for chat apps, probably you'll want to use Firefox for whatever offers a browser version of the chat protocol (like Discord, Skype, etc.).
Signal is just as safe as WhatsApp really, I pointed it out before how it's literally recommended by Jack Dorsey (Twitter CEO) and Edward Snowden (CIA agent, he is NOT a whistleblower!!) on Signal's homepage.

(12-25-2020, 08:15 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: I realize the PP is privacy aimed and features is not critical. thats fine by me. but seeing the video of the guy forced to opt in for location is a worry for me. I dont have anything to hide but no respect to a persons privacy and constant tracking really gets me worked up.

Again, he's not forced to opt in, he just said you have to opt in, no idea why he said that.
Nobody has nothing to hide, think passwords, PIN codes, creditcard numbers, etc.
Those count as things you want to hide.

(12-25-2020, 08:15 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: ive erased my fb, this used old laptop I use now (just for browsing) uses w10 (horrible)and its getting downgraded back to w7. I plan to install linux on another spare 2nd pc and learn that in parallel as it will be too frustrating for me to make a cold turkey switch.

Good to know you erased Fakebook, I wonder how many people still using it (excluding WhatsApp and Instrakilogram)

Depends on the distribution, most of the popular distributions are pretty easy to get used to these days.
Distributions using KDE and Cinnamon would be the easiest to start with, but depending on how old your laptop is, it could be a bit slow.

(12-25-2020, 08:15 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: besides this I see many videos of people showing issues with the software but im glad the option is there and in time will get better so really psyched . I read many posts here to learn about the PP as well. all in all, I think its wonderful.
I wish I could convert my brother but hes mac fanboy ostrich with head in the sand, which also happned by accident because of his buggy HTC windows mobile.

Linux on smartphones is still pretty much alpha quality at best.
But don't be confused here, same goes for your brother, Pinephone and Librem 5 are technically no smartphones, they're rather laptops in your pocket with phone functionality.
Don't expect it to be usable as a smartphone, so many of the smartphone apps you're taking as standard use will probably never come to Linux phones, you'll instead be using actual PC apps on it.

On the other hand, this is how freedom feels like, the ability to do whatever you want with it, fix broken things by yourself, just all the things that makes PC fun to use (Linux, BSD), or used to fun to use (Windows XP or older).

(12-25-2020, 08:15 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: stay safe and merry christmas

A little bit late, but same to you.

(12-25-2020, 09:32 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: for me threat number 2 (internet giants) is exactly what my worries is about. I dont live in the US so less issues with 3 letter govt agencies. maybe in my country they have some but im less worried.

You're in for a very unpleasant surprise, but each country has its own 3 letter agency, except they might not be 3 letters, but 4 letters, or 2 letters, or 2~4 sinographs, or simply the Chinese government.
Make no mistake, American 3 letter agencies (Clowns In America, No Such Agency, and FBI, and also agencies that exist inside these agencies), as well as the CCP (which is the government that actually sits on top of all of them through their American proxies) have a worldwide reach.
But as long as you're just a regular, anonymous citizen like everyone else, there's not much you have to worry about.
If you're not Chinese, saying things like "down with the CCP" is also fine by the way.

(12-25-2020, 09:32 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: I dont plan to have important data like sensitive pictures or documentss on it so not worried for hackers. PP is looking really nice with Plasma

Not today, but how about the future?

As for Plasma Mobile, you might want to wait with that one.
It's the most nice looking and 2nd most phone-like interface (after Ubuntu Touch), but at the same time it's the most unusable of the 3.
So unless you plan on helping the KDE team with bug fixing, probably a better idea to wait until it becomes more usable.

(12-25-2020, 09:32 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: I do need to learn how to flash different os and such. still doing research.

The software called Etcher and a micro SD card is all you need.

RE: inquiring about PP and tracking-newbie - rocketman122 - 12-28-2020

That's the first step into the great awakening, but probably you still have a longer way to go than you think.
I thought I woke up in 2014, but kept finding out that there were still many layers of matrix before I finally got my way out of it 6 months ago.

thanks for your very interesting reply! I hope your christmas went ok, given the gray feel.
I woke up since the pandemic. was damn asleep in the sheep flow like most. you were smarter, woke up sooner. shame you didnt nudge me to wake up. yes definitely have some ways to go. but so psyched there are options. im willing to give up convenience for not cooperating with any of the big 5. apple I will never buy again. amazon I dont use. Fb is out. this was my goto profile for contacts to get work.
I lost my career as a wedding photographer because of c19. and trying to control my life, I realize I have no options. so im trying to limit from those trying to control me and tweaking any annoyances. my stress levels are already through the roof. till I can get back on track im trying to hold on to any control I can get.

This is not really a privacy issue, this is rather the issue of having a lack of freedom.
Ultimately no privacy and no freedom go hand in hand, but changing icons against your will isn't really what I consider a privacy issue
And it's not Google's mistake, Google is spying on you by design.
It's called an advertisement company for a reason.

yes, and I need to do my part not to help them. an evil company in my eyes. I see anything related to them and I get fired up. I even hate using my phone or even touching it. I broke my lg v20 from being disgusted with it as it is google infested. now I bought a used lg g6 just to have a phone. I touch it as least as possible. so no frustrations.
I have no control to stop them accessing the phone so I dont browse on it. so no ads. but I think it is an invasion of my privacy. itd be the same knowing someone came into my home and moved a few things, logged things about me and left. it feels just the same.
I like to spread my icons only to the corners of the screen(leave middle open) and only a few on each page. all of a sudden, they changed the way the icons looked and they were all bunched up together. I got pissed off. I had to research what happened and that triggered in me to realize what was happening and one thing lead to another. I read a lot now about privacy issues and im trying to implement small changes. im more than happy to give up "conveniences" so i feel im doing something about it. that means using a stand alone gps unit. if it means I need to disconnect from whatsapp. fb is gone and actually brought me work and its out. no other social media as well.

PureOS is the OS that comes on the Librem 5 by default.
The screen was not forcing him to opt in, the options were turned off by default even.
He could have just tapped "Next" without enabling it, no idea why he even said that you have to opt in.

ok, great to know. I want to minimize anything I can. or at least turn it off when it isnt needed. im thinking im going to need 2 different phones with different numbers. I watch a lot of rob braxman videos. im not a huge fan but a lot of things he says opened my eyes.

This same screen does pop up on other distro's using Phosh after the first boot, but once again, you don't have to opt in if you don't want to.
Also, there's no PP software, Pine64 doesn't make any software, they just use whatever is already available, and in turn donate to them.

im shocked I have so much restraint not to use my phone. I used to do everything on it and today i dont even want to touch it. it just disgusts me. so I dont mind to try a phone with basic features and OS that is in alpha because I realize its part of the solution and it psyches me up to disconnect from google.

You can use the hardware kill switches if you want to be absolutely sure, but you won't be able to use internet connection if you turn off GPS since it's using the same modem.

I dont mind to use gps with the PP because its not a google phone. I can also use my stand alone gps unit for maps.

I'm sorry to say, but here you start going completely against what you just said.
In order to use GPS maps, you'll need to use location service tracking.
Without it, GPS won't work.
Maps will work, but you won't be able to navigate with it, just scroll through it like on Google Maps on your PC.

Im still learning. I thought gps is not connected to location services. I thought location services is using internet data, and gps just uses the receiver part to align your coordinates on a given map. I dont want to use my internet for it to track me.
I will use my stand alone gps unit (as it has no internet connection) and deal with it that way. I want to minimize as much data leak as possible. I already have 1 shadow that follows me. small inconvenience for making me happy.

As for chat apps, probably you'll want to use Firefox for whatever offers a browser version of the chat protocol (like Discord, Skype, etc.). Signal is just as safe as WhatsApp really, I pointed it out before how it's literally recommended by Jack Dorsey (Twitter CEO) and Edward Snowden (CIA agent, he is NOT a whistleblower!!) on Signal's homepage.

I salute Snowden and wish him the best and his new baby good health. if it wasnt for him, people would not know. prism though is just a horrific situation for control. I never used twitter. too toxic. and how these companies downplay how much they give the govt. i have a feeling they have a direct line to their information anytime they want without asking.

Nobody has nothing to hide, think passwords, PIN codes, creditcard numbers, etc. Those count as things you want to hide.

will not be using CC on my phone. I dont use it now either. only browse through laptop or pc's.

Good to know you erased Fakebook, I wonder how many people still using it (excluding WhatsApp and Instrakilogram)

I dont know myself but that f*ckerberg is bad news. and my brothers wife works in that shet company in ireland. she works for the enemy! my brother has no scruples. he uses all google products, is a big apple fanboy uses amazon like no issue.
it used to be in the past that people I knew varies chat apps. viber line and some others. now only whatsapp. and thats a shame. profile fingerprinting and is what pisses me off. I will ultimately have to cut out of whatsapp. I dont know what ill do for my business when they reopen wedding halls.

Depends on the distribution, most of the popular distributions are pretty easy to get used to these days.
Distributions using KDE and Cinnamon would be the easiest to start with, but depending on how old your laptop is, it could be a bit slow.

moving to linux for pc will be a process for me. one enemy at a time. but I need to get back to w7. Fb is out and no social media. that was quick. no gmail or drive. no cloud. only storage. ill take the chance.

Linux on smartphones is still pretty much alpha quality at best.
But don't be confused here, same goes for your brother, Pinephone and Librem 5 are technically no smartphones, they're rather laptops in your pocket with phone functionality.
Don't expect it to be usable as a smartphone, so many of the smartphone apps you're taking as standard use will probably never come to Linux phones, you'll instead be using actual PC apps on it.

I changed my mindset to realize that the phone is not a show or bling with features device for me now. I dont care about the specs and how people think of them as cool gadgets. they are a tool for functions I need to do. I have disconnected my feelings for newest specs and wow-ness. when you want something bad enough, the inconveniences or obstacles/limits become peanuts .

On the other hand, this is how freedom feels like, the ability to do whatever you want with it, fix broken things by yourself, just all the things that makes PC fun to use (Linux, BSD), or used to fun to use (Windows XP or older).

I am reall excited there are options. I wish i could have gone back to windows xp. bad ssd support and 4gb ram is a non option. even w7 I dont like too much. but w10? wow, what a piece of crep. the evil I sense with it....

You're in for a very unpleasant surprise, but each country has its own 3 letter agency, except they might not be 3 letters, but 4 letters, or 2 letters, or 2~4 sinographs, or simply the Chinese government.

hahaha thats hilarious. yes we have them too. not even close to the level of the us. but the americans are the best at acronyms for corporations agencies and more. no one is better!

But as long as you're just a regular, anonymous citizen like everyone else, there's not much you have to worry about.
If you're not Chinese, saying things like "down with the CCP" is also fine by the way.

im just a nobody. my hate are to the internet giantsI hate ccp. theyre absolutely shet. did you see the taiwanese? they knew who they were dealing with. when it started, they were like "uh uh, screw this, were closing the doors" and they came out unscathed.

I dont plan to have important data like sensitive pictures or documentss on it so not worried for hackers. PP is looking really nice with Plasma

Not today, but how about the future?

if im on a linux phone then less worry but documents are usually to email and not having any sensitive pics on phone at all.

As for Plasma Mobile, you might want to wait with that one.
It's the most nice looking and 2nd most phone-like interface (after Ubuntu Touch), but at the same time it's the most unusable of the 3.
So unless you plan on helping the KDE team with bug fixing, probably a better idea to wait until it becomes more usable.

I will try a few and see which is good enough. I realize its all a work in progress. im only looking for minimal functionality. kind of like a dumb phone without the dumbed down gui that you get with the older nokia bar/flip/kb phones.

The software called Etcher and a micro SD card is all you need.

good, will look to read about it. im going to ask a stupid question as I have no idea about this. ive never installed/flashed any rom/os, but is flashing or booting from/an os on the PP is through sd card? not connected to a computer or installed on the phone memory?
I know how to install windows, and various regedit things but I never dealt with phones in this way.and learning a new desktop os will be frustrating as ive used windows since 95. im dying to flash my phone now but if I fup Im going to be with no phone. so will wait till I get my PP, and then experiment

again, great reply. very informative. very much appreciated. happy new year. at least with that I wont be late.

RE: inquiring about PP and tracking-newbie - ryo - 12-29-2020

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: I woke up since the pandemic. was damn asleep in the sheep flow like most. you were smarter, woke up sooner. shame you didnt nudge me to wake up. yes definitely have some ways to go. but so psyched there are options. im willing to give up convenience for not cooperating with any of the big 5. apple I will never buy again. amazon I dont use. Fb is out. this was my goto profile for contacts to get work.
I lost my career as a wedding photographer because of c19. and trying to control my life, I realize I have no options. so im trying to limit from those trying to control me and tweaking any annoyances. my stress levels are already through the roof. till I can get back on track im trying to hold on to any control I can get.

I'm not so worried about this whole covid-19 and the more recent covid-21 (right now they just call it "mutated covid string", but this is the name they have planned on years ago) conspiracy theory.
The government here lets businesses decide their own "corona" rules, and the vast majority of them only have plastic at cash registers, bottles of alcohol at entrances, and signs requesting people to wear a mask, but nobody is enforcing any of the rules, and most people are perfectly OK if you don't follow them.
Even police doesn't give a damn.

So for the most part, "corona restrictions" is mostly just virtue signaling.

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: I watch a lot of rob braxman videos. im not a huge fan but a lot of things he says opened my eyes.

Rob Braxman is the guy who introduced me to the Pinephone.
I already knew about Librem 5, but it looked like it took Purism forever to release it.

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: I thought gps is not connected to location services.

GPS isn't connected to location services.
GPS == location services.

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: I salute Snowden and wish him the best and his new baby good health. if it wasnt for him, people would not know.

I can agree with that, except he seemingly forgot to let anyone know what the CIA is doing, and only exposed the NSA.
The real reason why he leaked all of that was due to a power struggle in America between CIA and NSA, both of which got way too powerful, and were competing over absolute power and control.

Some relevant military intelligence:
[Image: unknown.png]

Bonus, notice the waiving guy on the 4th floor of the building on the left:
https://qagg.news/images/9149e0e0e13f6bb6936f32d7200b01bd7918f5aa4f4f8ca174c60259740eba69.png
Still believing he's actually in Russia?
Obama was the harshest president against whistleblowers, but why did he leave Snowden alone?

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: will not be using CC on my phone. I dont use it now either. only browse through laptop or pc's.

I didn't mean "do you use a credit card on a phone?", but rather "would you blast your credit card details in public view at all?".

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: it used to be in the past that people I knew varies chat apps. viber line and some others. now only whatsapp. and thats a shame. profile fingerprinting and is what pisses me off. I will ultimately have to cut out of whatsapp.

I'm using LINE.
It's not a privacy chat system (the only truly private chat system are handwritten notes passed along).
It's for the same reason as what you said about WhatsApp, except in my country LINE is by far the most widely used chat app.
The only ones I know in real life who uses WhatsApp are some foreigners, and even then it's just a select few of them.

This is one of the reasons why I still have iPhones and Android phones lying around at home, and I keep them at home at all times.

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: im just a nobody. my hate are to the internet giantsI hate ccp. theyre absolutely shet. did you see the taiwanese? they knew who they were dealing with. when it started, they were like "uh uh, screw this, were closing the doors" and they came out unscathed.

All of us here in Asia are against the CCP pretty much, it's not only the Taiwanese.
Except very few seem to understand how much power the CCP has over the continent.
Even in our government, the vast majority are either Chinese or Korean, which goes completely against our constitution (which is why each time we the people request them to show their proof of citizenship, they refuse).

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: if im on a linux phone then less worry but documents are usually to email and not having any sensitive pics on phone at all.

Email is a very underestimated security risk, bigger than you think.
Privacy isn't limited to just having dick pics yes or no.

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: I will try a few and see which is good enough. I realize its all a work in progress. im only looking for minimal functionality. kind of like a dumb phone without the dumbed down gui that you get with the older nokia bar/flip/kb phones.

How about modern flip phones then?
They have a decent UI with still some bits of nostalgia in them.
They are running on an degoogled Android base underneath, so you can install Android apps on them using ADB on your PC if you want to, but without Google anywhere (unless you install Gapps of course).
Although not sure if they'd work where you live, but I've seen YouTubers from Thailand and Vietnam using them in their countries with no problem.

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: ive never installed/flashed any rom/os, but is flashing or booting from/an os on the PP is through sd card?

yup.

(12-28-2020, 04:09 PM)rocketman122 Wrote: not connected to a computer or installed on the phone memory?

yup.