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+--- Forum: General Discussion on PinePhone (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=127)
+--- Thread: multiple operating systems? (/showthread.php?tid=11033)
multiple operating systems? - derekn - 08-13-2020
I just ordered a PinePhone, and I've been doing some reading on the wiki... It sounds like it will be possible to get several SD cards, and install a different OS on each card, and then swap OSes by powering off, swapping the SD card, powering back on. Is that correct? I'm hoping it is, because it will make it super-easy to try out some of the more interesting (and maybe less polished) OS options.
Is there any particular reason to install an OS on the internal storage (versus SD card)? Maybe better performance?
RE: multiple operating systems? - fernando_c_m - 08-13-2020
Hello,
Yes. The method you describe will work.
Installing on the eMMC should have a better performance than on the SD card, though not really that much if you are using a good quality SD card.
The biggest advantage of this approach is that you can use the SD card for the user data.
RE: multiple operating systems? - derekn - 08-13-2020
Excellent, thanks - that all makes sense.
RE: multiple operating systems? - bcnaz - 08-23-2020
(08-13-2020, 12:35 PM)derekn Wrote: I just ordered a PinePhone, and I've been doing some reading on the wiki... It sounds like it will be possible to get several SD cards, and install a different OS on each card, and then swap OSes by powering off, swapping the SD card, powering back on. Is that correct? I'm hoping it is, because it will make it super-easy to try out some of the more interesting (and maybe less polished) OS options.
Is there any particular reason to install an OS on the internal storage (versus SD card)? Maybe better performance?
There are a few things to consider before installing an OS to your eMMC.
Not all OSes you install to your eMMC allow you to easily boot a different OS from the sd card.
You should carefully read (and understand) the "boot order" part in the wiki.
From the factory installed OS your boot order is actually written on the eMMC, this tells your board to boot from the sd card first, "IF" one is in the slot.
But not all OSes you install will have this 'order' built into their software.
RE: multiple operating systems? - derekn - 08-23-2020
(08-23-2020, 03:58 PM)bcnaz Wrote: There are a few things to consider before installing an OS to your eMMC.
Not all OSes you install to your eMMC allow you to easily boot a different OS from the sd card.
You should carefully read (and understand) the "boot order" part in the wiki.
From the factory installed OS your boot order is actually written on the eMMC, this tells your board to boot from the sd card first, "IF" one is in the slot.
But not all OSes you install will have this 'order' built into their software.
Can you point out the wiki page with that info?
I'm looking at https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php?title=PinePhone_Installation_Instructions and the very last section ("Reuse SD card for data storage...") says "the Allwinner firmware in the PinePhone uses some (normally) unused space at the front of the SD card to store boot software". That implies that there's firmware (not on the eMMC?) that looks at the SD card first.
But that's not 100% clear, so I'm wondering if there's another wiki page that I missed.
RE: multiple operating systems? - hiimtye - 08-23-2020
the pinephone boots off of the SD card if present and with a boot flag, and if not it boots off the eMMC
as to the mechanism involved I'm not sure, you'd have to ask one of the devs
RE: multiple operating systems? - bcnaz - 08-24-2020
The wiki is pretty through, but I think there is a weak point in explaining how the Pine phone actually boots.
I think that some of the explanations from the Pinebook Pro wiki "Bootable Storage" can help explain how the board actually boots.
As arm devices, they do boot different than the AMD/Intel devices so many of us are used to....
I have read the Pinebook Pro wiki many times, I had just assumed this was also mentioned in the Pine phone wiki, but it is not...
The (Pre) boot directions are actually on the eMMC from the factory.
I just looked, I was surprised this has been skipped in the Pine phone wiki.
---------
Last year we discussed this a lot on the forum, pertaining then to the brand new Pinebook Pro. The Pine phone is much the same.
RE: multiple operating systems? - wibble - 08-24-2020
You're getting confused by the different boot order of two different ARM SoCs. The Pinebook Pro uses the RK3399 which has a different boot sequence to the Allwinner A64 in the PinePhone.
https://wiki.pine64.org/index.php?title=RK3399_boot_sequence
https://linux-sunxi.org/Boot_Process
https://linux-sunxi.org/BROM#A64
https://bloggerbust.ca/post/how-to-update-uboot-for-postmarketos-on-the-pinephone/
RE: multiple operating systems? - klick - 08-24-2020
(08-13-2020, 12:35 PM)derekn Wrote: I just ordered a PinePhone, and I've been doing some reading on the wiki... It sounds like it will be possible to get several SD cards, and install a different OS on each card, and then swap OSes by powering off, swapping the SD card, powering back on. Is that correct? I'm hoping it is, because it will make it super-easy to try out some of the more interesting (and maybe less polished) OS options.So far on UBports CE version, I have been able to boot from a SD both Mobian and Manjaro Plasma Mobil. I used Etcher to install each OS on a different 32GB micro SD card (SanDisk Ultra Plus). I believe the phone automatically boots from the SD first, if available. I am primarily using Mobian on the SD card now an occasionally boot the Ubuntu Touch in order to update.
Is there any particular reason to install an OS on the internal storage (versus SD card)? Maybe better performance?
The only reason I am using Mobian over UT is that I cannot make outbound calls at this point, only receive calls and send and receive texts. This is on both T-Mobile and Mint Mobile's network. Mobian runs slower than UT does which may be due to being on the SD card but making and receiving phone calls, sending and receiving texts, and Bluetooth speakers work on Mobian. Also, the sound quality is much better and louder on Mobian than UT, but this is my experience and may not reflect everyone else's.
I do install the Manjaro Plasma on an SD and try it out when they release a new update but for me, it tends to work even less than the UT version at this time. Based on what I have read, the Manjaro team are pursuing the PinePhone which could really help with development if they can treat it as well as they do their Pinebook Pro project.