PINE64
Lets create the PineCom - Printable Version

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RE: Lets create the PineCom - bruce - 10-15-2020

I wouldn't make it a single device but a class of device with the aim of much greater modularity.
For instance, build it all around a single board with a range of housings such as 5, 7 and 10 inch screens with interchangeable lenses and / or covers allowing for:
  • Pocket linux tablet / ereader
  • MP3/Ogg/Flac player/internet radio player
  • 7inch netbook (for when you don't want to lug around a full laptop but do need to write/take notes)
  • POS device
  • Warehouse/stock checking device/QR code reader
  • Interchangeable lenses for various sizes of smart camera
  • the list could go on and on
    All made to be accessible and interchangeable to fit your needs proving that open source/hardware can be affordable, easy to use and environmentally friendly.


RE: Lets create the PineCom - bookhydra - 10-15-2020

Maybe partner with MetaMesh.org They are running a community free wifi & LoRa mesh network in Pittsburgh PA USA for years now. Would make a great test network

RE: Lets create the PineCom - talmage - 10-16-2020

Would you consider working with Bunny Huang on his Precursor device? https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=5921

RE: Lets create the PineCom - pinellama - 10-16-2020

I'd like to throw in my two cents. I'm a Wi-Fi engineer for my day job. One of the most interesting projects that's been developed in the last couple years in my field is the WLAN Pi project. Some very smart people in the Wi-Fi community have taken a mini SBC and turned it into a very flexible tool for analyzing Wi-Fi networks. That being said, I could see something like this providing a better platform in the IT world for Wi-Fi and security professionals to make some very useful tools. The key to this would be using a dual-band Wi-Fi chip that is capable of AP mode, STA mode, monitor mode, and packet injection. With that one change I could easily see this being a go-to device for penetration testing and Wi-Fi troubleshooting.

An SMA connector for an external antenna as suggested by another user would be nice, but not necessary.

  1. Do we need both a front and back camera on the PineCom? At least a back camera would be nice on any mobile platform.
  2. Should we bring over all sensors present on the PinePhone? I don't see a whole lot of value in the proximity sensor. Ambient light sensor is nice, but not necessary if there's an easy way to change screen brightness. If you leave GPS in then a barometer wouldn't really be necessary for altitude.
  3. Should we use the same single band/11n/BT4 WiFi module in the PinePhone (for compatibility sake) or change it out for a dual band/11ac/BT5? As already mentioned, this is a big one. A dual band AC Wi-Fi module that supports AP mode, STA mode, monitor mode, and packet injection would be amazing.
  4. Should the device feature a GPS (and compass) or are those features redundant in this type of device? GPS is always nice in a mobile device, especially people expect to use it outdoors. I'd say a compass should remain at a bare minimum if GPS is removed.
  5. Should we include SPI flash? This device could easily run off of micro SD cards. They're inexpensive and easy to swap out. Also keeps the total device cost down.
  6. We’re currently thinking of using a 5” LCD panel for the PineCom; what do you think about this - is there a reason to go bigger or smaller? 5" sounds perfect.


RE: Lets create the PineCom - RTP - 10-16-2020

(10-09-2020, 06:13 PM)Luke Wrote: Hello everyone,

We’ll soon be starting work on the PineCom - a privacy-oriented handheld communicator that shares the PinePhone’s pedigree but offers a distinct and different feature set. We hope to achieve a high degree of software compatibility between the two devices - indeed, we expect the PineCom to run all existing PinePhone OS images out-of-the-box. Unlike the PinePhone however, the PineCom will not feature a modem but rather rely on WiFi, IoT LoRa and LoRaWan for communications. The device will also be smaller at (5” LCD panel or less), and will not feature a USB-C alt mode for video output. 

Everything else is still up in the air at this point, and we therefore invite you to brainstorm ideas with us regarding the remaining design features of the PineCom. More specifically, we’d like to know your opinion on the following:

  1. Do we need both a front and back camera on the PineCom? In fact, do we need any cameras at all? 
  2. Should we bring over all sensors present on the PinePhone? If so, which do you think we can do without?
  3. Should we use the same single band/11n/BT4 WiFi module in the PinePhone (for compatibility sake) or change it out for a dual band/11ac/BT5?
  4. Should the device feature a GPS (and compass) or are those features redundant in this type of device? 
  5. Should we include SPI flash?
  6. We are currently considering following the PinePhone’s general design and aesthetic for the PineCom, but if there is some sort of physical (within reason - also financially) that you think would fit this type of device well then make sure to let us know.  
  7. We’re currently thinking of using a 5” LCD panel for the PineCom; what do you think about this - is there a reason to go bigger or smaller? 
We are completely open to any and all suggestions at this point. That said, we’d appreciate it if you’d keep in mind that the targeted price range for this device is $99-149 when offering your insight. 

As always, thank you for your feedback! 

Cool idea. I  was thinking just the other day Pinephone itself has capability to use LoRa addons to become an open source encrypted comms device (for those not using as a phone/wanting options).

Maybe a less hardware intensive (no cellular modem but radio/WiFi/ble communication device) could save more of the battery life compared to Pinephone's LTE modem (to extend use cases)?

As our devices become more surveillance/tracking/data collecting intensive, I see Pinephone and devices respecting user continuing to get more popular as software continues stabilizing (I really love my Pinephone and use as daily driver).

For this device to be as successful as possible (given Pinephone's $150 price) this device having a goal max price somewhere around $99-110 w/be ideal imho (considering as I see it, most buyers would have to justify buying it over a 2nd Pinephone for similar use; keeping this low as possible would maximize sales. Another thought to add: Many would likely get 2 of these for 2 way encrypted communications).

Single band is fine for a comms device (in order to keep price noticeably lower than Pinephone unless dual band won't effect final price). The focus could be on the maximizing communication capabilities/addons.

In many ways I don't see most sensors as necessary (especially if able to lower price). Camera could be good for QR codes maybe bitcoin related and video comms if capable.

Just some thoughts.

RE: Lets create the PineCom - Pelecanus - 10-16-2020

Quote:Do we need both a front and back camera on the PineCom? In fact, do we need any cameras at all?

A back camera would be nice, but I could also live without a camera on the PineCom.

Quote:Should we use the same single band/11n/BT4 WiFi module in the PinePhone (for compatibility sake) or change it out for a dual band/11ac/BT5?

I prefer dual band.

Quote:Should the device feature a GPS (and compass) or are those features redundant in this type of device?

GPS and compass would be great for outdoor activities.

Quote:We’re currently thinking of using a 5” LCD panel for the PineCom; what do you think about this - is there a reason to go bigger or smaller?

My previous phone had a 5” display and I would rather not have such a small display again. I prefer the size of the PinePhone display. Also I wonder if it could save some money if the PineCom had the same size as the PinePhone and parts could be reused?

RE: Lets create the PineCom - kelbot - 10-16-2020

Yes, I think cameras should be included. There are enough possible use cases where cameras would be very welcome such as using it as a phone alternative.

Sensors is a tough one. I think keeping most or all the sensors is a good call.

I think dual band wifi module would be better for a device without a modem and therefore more wifi dependent.

I could go either way on GPS. It would certainly add to its usefulness as a navigation device but personally I wouldn't be using it for that so i wouldn't miss it.

SPI flash or not I wouldn't be upset.

For form factor, why not keep the same physical form as a the Pinephone and have all the upcoming Pinephone addons like keyboard, qi charging etc be compatible with both Pinephone and Pinecom? If you're set on doing a different form factor then I would prefer a smaller size.

RE: Lets create the PineCom - tllim - 10-17-2020

(10-16-2020, 08:29 AM)pinellama Wrote: I'd like to throw in my two cents. I'm a Wi-Fi engineer for my day job. One of the most interesting projects that's been developed in the last couple years in my field is the WLAN Pi project. Some very smart people in the Wi-Fi community have taken a mini SBC and turned it into a very flexible tool for analyzing Wi-Fi networks. That being said, I could see something like this providing a better platform in the IT world for Wi-Fi and security professionals to make some very useful tools. The key to this would be using a dual-band Wi-Fi chip that is capable of AP mode, STA mode, monitor mode, and packet injection. With that one change I could easily see this being a go-to device for penetration testing and Wi-Fi troubleshooting.

An SMA connector for an external antenna as suggested by another user would be nice, but not necessary.

  1. Do we need both a front and back camera on the PineCom? At least a back camera would be nice on any mobile platform.
  2. Should we bring over all sensors present on the PinePhone? I don't see a whole lot of value in the proximity sensor. Ambient light sensor is nice, but not necessary if there's an easy way to change screen brightness. If you leave GPS in then a barometer wouldn't really be necessary for altitude.
  3. Should we use the same single band/11n/BT4 WiFi module in the PinePhone (for compatibility sake) or change it out for a dual band/11ac/BT5? As already mentioned, this is a big one. A dual band AC Wi-Fi module that supports AP mode, STA mode, monitor mode, and packet injection would be amazing.
  4. Should the device feature a GPS (and compass) or are those features redundant in this type of device? GPS is always nice in a mobile device, especially people expect to use it outdoors. I'd say a compass should remain at a bare minimum if GPS is removed.
  5. Should we include SPI flash? This device could easily run off of micro SD cards. They're inexpensive and easy to swap out. Also keeps the total device cost down.
  6. We’re currently thinking of using a 5” LCD panel for the PineCom; what do you think about this - is there a reason to go bigger or smaller? 5" sounds perfect.

Please advise a suitable Wifi/BT chip part number, currently select AP6256 which is the same chip use in Pinebook Pro.

RE: Lets create the PineCom - bcnaz - 10-17-2020

Perhaps they need two versions ?

One that has every option available, that you leave plugged into a power brick. on your desk... (Tech Toy)

A second version that has real field use in mind instead, so it could be actually used all day. (Tech Tool)

RE: Lets create the PineCom - KC9UDX - 10-18-2020

(10-17-2020, 08:33 PM)bcnaz Wrote: Perhaps they need two versions ?

One that has every option available, that you leave plugged into a power brick. on your desk... (Tech Toy)

A second version that has real field use in mind instead, so it could be actually used all day.  (Tech Tool)
A third version that wavers horizontally. (Tech Tech)