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+--- Thread: Linux Distro Support (/showthread.php?tid=85)
RE: Linux Distro Support - tkaiser - 01-04-2016
(01-04-2016, 01:53 PM)beard Wrote: For those who keep talking about 3.x Kernel versions forget them. We need to be looking at 4.x. Mostly at either 4.2.x or .4.4.x
Be prepared that 3.10.y is currently all you have. While it's relatively 'easy' to put together a rather huge patchset to get from 3.10.65 up to 3.10.94 (IIRC latest 3.10 LTS version -- 3.10 support has been discontinued a few days ago) to include maybe 1000-2000 fixes in the 3.10.y kernel series it won't help that much.
And also forget about 4.2.x, 4.4.x or 3.18 (as the Pine guys write in their FAQ). It works differently. In case you're interested watch the linux-sunxi ML: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/linux-sunxi (it's a patch reviewing and development list, so please no NOOBs questions there. Silently monitor it if you're not familiar with kernel development at least for a few weeks to get an idea how this all works)
Read threads regarding H3, A83T and A64 to get an idea how long it might take until a new Allwinner SoC becomes useable with mainline u-boot/kernel ('useable' in a very basic meaning, read as: It boots on a single CPU core and stuff like UART, USB, maybe networking, maybe display, maybe SMP are working).
U-boot is a different story. The version Allwinner delivered with the A64 BSP still makes use of the sys_config.fex stuff (while the kernel already uses device tree -- 'nice' mixture
), that will never be accepted/used by mainline u-boot therefore this has also to be written from scratch.Regarding device drivers: It seems Allwinner implemented a new Ethernet core starting with H3 and re-uses it in A83T (also called H8/R58) and A64 (also called H64/R18). Code/efforts might be re-used but the ARMv7 vs. ARMv8 problem remains. I've no idea about other driver stuff since it seems none of the devs except a few had a closer look into A64 already. That might change with the availability of dev boards (Rev. B Pine64, Olimex) but I won't count on it. And I still wonder why the Pine guys didn't buy a few Remix Minis (also a Kickstarter campaign based on A64 and already shipping) and sent them to interested developers. 99% of work to get a recent Linux kernel running on the Pine64 is needed to support the A64 SoC regardless of the device in question.
BTW: In the last few weeks I've seen one single post here in the forums from a person that seems to know what he's talking about regarding Aarch64 and the steps necessary to get Linux running even just with Allwinner's 3.10.65 Android kernel (not to speak of Mainline kernel). And this is the very same guy now starting to submit patches to the linux-sunxi list to prepare mainline kernel support in the future.
(01-04-2016, 02:28 PM)joe Wrote: Do you know other new CPU kernel is use 3.x is not only allwinner
Please turn on CAPS lock also! That makes your valuable insights better readable!!!
Fortunately I've been able to read your question even if you just used bold type (it was hard though). Please check the official linux kernel github repository and there the master branch: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/arch
There you might have a look into both arm/boot/dts (be prepared that the listing of devices with mainline kernel support is cut to 1,000 devices -- github really suckz!) and arm64/boot/dts (be prepared that you won't find an 'Allwinner' subdir there).
BTW: That you'll find there some companies actively providing mainline kernel support for their products is an (often unintentionally) byproduct of their business model. Rockchip for example actively contributes to mainline kernel not because they discovered their love for Open Source recently but since they were forced by Google (ChromiumOS) to do so. There's nothing comparable regarding Allwinner since their business model is to sell the SoCs for the cheapest Android gadgets available (where nobody cares about kernel version, conformance to GPL or code quality and the like. Only three other things count: cheap, cheap and cheap)
RE: Linux Distro Support - joe - 01-04-2016
(01-04-2016, 03:17 PM)tkaiser Wrote:(01-04-2016, 01:53 PM)beard Wrote: For those who keep talking about 3.x Kernel versions forget them. We need to be looking at 4.x. Mostly at either 4.2.x or .4.4.x
Be prepared that 3.10.y is currently all you have. While it's relatively 'easy' to put together a rather huge patchset to get from 3.10.65 up to 3.10.94 (IIRC latest 3.10 LTS version -- 3.10 support has been discontinued a few days ago) to include maybe 1000-2000 fixes in the 3.10.y kernel series it won't help that much.
And also forget about 4.2.x, 4.4.x or 3.18 (as the Pine guys write in their FAQ). It works differently. In case you're interested watch the linux-sunxi ML: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/linux-sunxi (it's a patch reviewing and development list, so please no NOOBs questions there. Silently monitor it if you're not familiar with kernel development at least for a few weeks to get an idea how this all works)
Read threads regarding H3, A83T and A64 to get an idea how long it might take until a new Allwinner SoC becomes useable with mainline u-boot/kernel ('useable' in a very basic meaning, read as: It boots on a single CPU core and stuff like UART, USB, maybe networking, maybe display, maybe SMP are working).
U-boot is a different story. The version Allwinner delivered with the A64 BSP still makes use of the sys_config.fex stuff (while the kernel already uses device tree -- 'nice' mixture
Regarding device drivers: It seems Allwinner implemented a new Ethernet core starting with H3 and re-uses it in A83T (also called H8/R58) and A64 (also called H64/R18). Code/efforts might be re-used but the ARMv7 vs. ARMv8 problem remains. I've no idea about other driver stuff since it seems none of the devs except a few had a closer look into A64 already. That might change with the availability of dev boards (Rev. B Pine64, Olimex) but I won't count on it. And I still wonder why the Pine guys didn't buy a few Remix Minis (also a Kickstarter campaign based on A64 and already shipping) and sent them to interested developers. 99% of work to get a recent Linux kernel running on the Pine64 is needed to support the A64 SoC regardless of the device in question.
BTW: In the last few weeks I've seen one single post here in the forums from a person that seems to know what he's talking about regarding Aarch64 and the steps necessary to get Linux running even just with Allwinner's 3.10.65 Android kernel (not to speak of Mainline kernel). And this is the very same guy now starting to submit patches to the linux-sunxi list to prepare mainline kernel support in the future.
(01-04-2016, 02:28 PM)joe Wrote: Do you know other new CPU kernel is use 3.x is not only allwinner
Please turn on CAPS lock also! That makes your valuable insights better readable!!!
Fortunately I've been able to read your question even if you just used bold type (it was hard though). Please check the official linux kernel github repository and there the master branch: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/tree/master/arch
There you might have a look into both arm/boot/dts (be prepared that the listing of devices with mainline kernel support is cut to 1,000 devices -- github really suckz!) and arm64/boot/dts (be prepared that you won't find an 'Allwinner' subdir there).
BTW: That you'll find there some companies actively providing mainline kernel support for their products is an (often unintentionally) byproduct of their business model. Rockchip for example actively contributes to mainline kernel not because they discovered their love for Open Source recently but since they were forced by Google (ChromiumOS) to do so. There's nothing comparable regarding Allwinner since their business model is to sell the SoCs for the cheapest Android gadgets available (where nobody cares about kernel version, conformance to GPL or code quality and the like. Only three other things count: cheap, cheap and cheap)
Wow , This is your jobs ? You can write history book and you have time stay here , i very proud of you , you win , bye ok?
RE: Linux Distro Support - hazerty - 01-07-2016
what about chrome OS or remix OS?
RE: Linux Distro Support - beard - 01-07-2016
(01-07-2016, 04:52 AM)hazerty Wrote: what about chrome OS or remix OS?
Seeing as RemixOS is basically Android, and the Pine guys already said they have support for Android.
I don't think RemixOS is on the top list of Distros to port.
Also.. ChromeOS? Really? A locked down OS. No thank you.
I think the main OS's to port would be: Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Arch.
RE: Linux Distro Support - joe - 01-07-2016
(01-07-2016, 08:39 AM)beard Wrote:(01-07-2016, 04:52 AM)hazerty Wrote: what about chrome OS or remix OS?
Seeing as RemixOS is basically Android, and the Pine guys already said they have support for Android.
I don't think RemixOS is on the top list of Distros to port.
Also.. ChromeOS? Really? A locked down OS. No thank you.
I think the main OS's to port would be: Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Arch.
I like Arch if use ARM Soc , just command pacman -Syu can update all
RE: Linux Distro Support - tllim - 01-08-2016
(01-07-2016, 08:39 AM)beard Wrote:(01-07-2016, 04:52 AM)hazerty Wrote: what about chrome OS or remix OS?
Seeing as RemixOS is basically Android, and the Pine guys already said they have support for Android.
I don't think RemixOS is on the top list of Distros to port.
Also.. ChromeOS? Really? A locked down OS. No thank you.
I think the main OS's to port would be: Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Arch.
We are RemixOS folk already meet and talk, hopefully will provide some good news soon.
RE: Linux Distro Support - tllim - 01-09-2016
(01-08-2016, 01:50 AM)tllim Wrote:I have meet up with David Ko (Remix Cofounder) and Bill Cheung yesterday at CES, we have interest on working together. You can expect remox OS run on Pine A64 :-) Hopefully this will happen before we ship out first batch on February. Cheer and here is the meet up photo.(01-07-2016, 08:39 AM)beard Wrote:(01-07-2016, 04:52 AM)hazerty Wrote: what about chrome OS or remix OS?
Seeing as RemixOS is basically Android, and the Pine guys already said they have support for Android.
I don't think RemixOS is on the top list of Distros to port.
Also.. ChromeOS? Really? A locked down OS. No thank you.
I think the main OS's to port would be: Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu, Arch.
We are RemixOS folk already meet and talk, hopefully will provide some good news soon.
RE: Linux Distro Support - sbhere - 03-13-2016
(01-03-2016, 04:33 AM)joe Wrote:(01-03-2016, 03:04 AM)tkaiser Wrote:tkaiser maybe is the product competitors company personnel(01-02-2016, 06:07 PM)nomadewolf Wrote: <helpful><helpful>
You have single-handedly prompted me to ask the moderators for an ignore button on this forum.
RE: Linux Distro Support - lenny.raposo-pine64.pro - 03-14-2016
Joe once again I am sure you do not grasp the complexity of running linux on an allwinner soc.
tkaiser is speaking from an expertise stand point. 3.10 is the only kernel at the moment that is and will be functional for the pine. You can do updates until the cows come home from your favourite distro it still will make no difference in terms of updating the kernel. The 3.10 kernel will work but expect hiccups running it in a production capacity.
I have been monitoring the irc room for 3 days now and speaking to longsleep and there is a lot to do to get mainline support for the pine. This soc (allwinners' version of the a53) was designed with Android more in mind than anything else.
longsleep has put a lot of time into this (thanks mate will be joining you once the boards arrive) and I can see that his efforts and those of the community will be the only ones that will get this thing working properly on linux.
Like I stated before pine mislead us (regarding linux support) and if no one in the community was working on linux support (freely I might add) we would simply have another Android device.
Prove me wrong folks. Tell me who at pine is working on this problem?
Joe I don't know you, but judging from your comments you certainly come off as a noob who knows nothing about the workings of linux and trying to impress the community by stating you run arch is not impressive either. Anybody can get arch running, geez there are enough tutorials on it cut and paste away Joe.
I totally understand and agree with tkaiser's post. Nothing will move forward for a while as there is lots to do for mainline kernel support. We are stuck with the 3.10 kernel until then and I don't think Pine and all their chit chat with allwinner is gonna change all that. This is all marketing chit chat, when pine has a legally binding document from allwinner that provides us them with full disclosure in terms of driver sources it will be nothing more than idle banter. I spoke to such and such from allwinner, yada, yada means nothing.
Me speaking to somebody and having a legally binding agreement are 2 different things. Please understand that folks.
In the meantime be objective, realistic and question everything being stated by the Pine team. Educate yourselves on the matter and if you have the know how, contribute!
RE: Linux Distro Support - lenny.raposo-pine64.pro - 03-14-2016
Just immersed myself in hours of getting familiar with arm linux development. I highly recommend looking into things as it is quite interesting.
I would like to personally thank apritzel and longsleep for pointing me in the right direction and showing me enough to get started.
BTW apritzel I see your point now in terms of going along the mainline path and skipping the other route. Thanks buddy.