+- PINE64 (https://forum.pine64.org)
+-- Forum: PinePhone Pro (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=177)
+--- Forum: General Discussion of PinePhone Pro (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=178)
+--- Thread: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone (/showthread.php?tid=16071)
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - lllsondowlll - 02-14-2022
(02-13-2022, 09:51 PM)bcnaz Wrote: I set mine to never suspend while on the charger, it was still functioning after 30 hours on the charger.
For a daily driver that is unacceptable,
but for a brand new system on a new phone, I think it is showing great promise.
That's just my opinion though.
Feb. 13, 2022...Sunday
My "on battery delay" is set for 5 minutes, and yep, it does freeze when it goes into suspend.
This is supposed to be fun, or at least "Interesting", watching these phones as they start and grow from the developers
ideas into an actual working phones.
It has been about 25 months since I received my Brave Heart phone, it has been a very interesting time for me.
I am glad I found Pine64, -- I won't trade any of my Pine phones for a rotten Apple or a privacy invading Google piece of cr....
If battery life is a concern you can check out my workaround here. Battery last two days on one charge Pinephone Pro
https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=16094&pid=106862#pid106862
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - bcnaz - 02-14-2022
(02-14-2022, 10:57 AM)tckosvic Wrote:(02-13-2022, 09:51 PM)bcnaz Wrote: I set mine to never suspend while on the charger, it was still functioning after 30 hours on the charger.Try letting it be OFF the charger as if out someplace. See how long it functions as a phone. Not ON the charger.
For a daily driver that is unacceptable,
but for a brand new system on a new phone, I think it is showing great promise.
That's just my opinion though.
Feb. 13, 2022...Sunday
My "on battery delay" is set for 5 minutes, and yep, it does freeze when it goes into suspend.
This is supposed to be fun, or at least "Interesting", watching these phones as they start and grow from the developers
ideas into an actual working phones.
It has been about 25 months since I received my Brave Heart phone, it has been a very interesting time for me.
I am glad I found Pine64, -- I won't trade any of my Pine phones for a rotten Apple or a privacy invading Google piece of cr....
You seem to be missing the point.
This is a Development phone, the first release was supposed to be Developers ONLY.
The Explorer is for Developers and Brave Souls.
*** "The Pine phone Pro is Not for Consumers" *** ( yet )
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - kaida - 02-14-2022
It's not possibly dysfunctional. It totally isn't functional YET, but as Bcnaz stated it's a Developer phone , and Pine themselves had lots of warning about the current state.
so I don't really get that point ?
also you ask why the fix for the PP haven't been included in the PPP ? some are , some can't since different parts means different drivers so not every fix can be translated to the new device
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - bcnaz - 02-15-2022
The very first batch was supposed to "only go to recognized Developers", but I have seen a few posts here asking for help to turn on their Developers edition phones.
DUH ! I guess they did not check those credentials ? Huh ?
I kinda wanted one of those, -- but I was not going to lie and claim to be a developer.
> The Explorer Pro is very close to what I expected, maybe even a bit better. -- and I know it was just a "Boarding Pass to start a Journey".
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - tckosvic - 02-15-2022
(02-15-2022, 12:20 AM)bcnaz Wrote: The very first batch was supposed to "only go to recognized Developers", but I have seen a few posts here asking for help to turn on their Developers edition phones.
DUH ! I guess they did not check those credentials ? Huh ?
I kinda wanted one of those, -- but I was not going to lie and claim to be a developer.
> The Explorer Pro is very close to what I expected, maybe even a bit better. -- and I know it was just a "Boarding Pass to start a Journey".
Sorry, but I think items like a proper boot sequence, booting from the system memory, rather than, temporarily!!, booting from an SD, and handling of power requirements to be able to stay awake and keep functioning are fundamental and should be addressed before release in anything to be callled a cell phone. items like playing audios, emails, MMS mails and such are acceptible development things.
tom kosvic
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - kaida - 02-18-2022
(02-15-2022, 02:45 PM)tckosvic Wrote: Sorry, but I think items like a proper boot sequence, booting from the system memory, rather than, temporarily!!, booting from an SD, and handling of power requirements to be able to stay awake and keep functioning are fundamental and should be addressed before release in anything to be callled a cell phone. items like playing audios, emails, MMS mails and such are acceptible development things.
tom kosvic
The boot sequence is fine .. it come from the CPU wich boot from internal first , but since the software is not totally advanced it's recommanded to boot on SD (cause if your boot partition is corrupted it's easier to fix the SD.
but seriously even if you install on internal emmc with the Explorer Edition you just have a press of a buttons under the phone to skip the internal and still boot on SD , and it's easily fixable too , So no issues there. just safety precaution for less experimented
The handling of the power is Again software side , Pine Develops hardware and the community develops software .. so you wanted the community to fix things before having the device in their hand ? a bit hard isn't ?
I think you should inform yourself about the PPP and how development is made before doing accusation like that, and talking it down
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - tckosvic - 02-20-2022
(02-18-2022, 06:48 AM)kaida Wrote:I have been spending time on looking at this thing. I want to get it usable as I hate android/google. I am not a systems programmer.(02-15-2022, 02:45 PM)tckosvic Wrote: Sorry, but I think items like a proper boot sequence, booting from the system memory, rather than, temporarily!!, booting from an SD, and handling of power requirements to be able to stay awake and keep functioning are fundamental and should be addressed before release in anything to be callled a cell phone. items like playing audios, emails, MMS mails and such are acceptible development things.
tom kosvic
The boot sequence is fine .. it come from the CPU wich boot from internal first , but since the software is not totally advanced it's recommanded to boot on SD (cause if your boot partition is corrupted it's easier to fix the SD.
but seriously even if you install on internal emmc with the Explorer Edition you just have a press of a buttons under the phone to skip the internal and still boot on SD , and it's easily fixable too , So no issues there. just safety precaution for less experimented
The handling of the power is Again software side , Pine Develops hardware and the community develops software .. so you wanted the community to fix things before having the device in their hand ? a bit hard isn't ?
I think you should inform yourself about the PPP and how development is made before doing accusation like that, and talking it down
It is not "recommended" to boot from an sd, it is forced by the UBoot files. You need special software to alter that sequence which is now becoming available, i.e., towboot. That makes a wierd startup sequence a lot stronger than a recommendation.
Explain how power management is a user/deve/oper issue rather than a hardware/developer issue? How can a user/developer modify power issues? That is fundamental to distributing anything to be called a cell phone. Wouldn't basic power issue be handled at the bios level? Doesn't the bios come installed by the chip/mb manufacturer?
OK, let me ask in a more simplistic manner. What software capabilities are installed on the phone before the OS/desktop? Are you saying none?
tom kosvic
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - lllsondowlll - 02-21-2022
This is not a traditional commercial phone and there definitely isn't a BIOS in the way that you are thinking. The call audio and sleep functions are still being worked on, this is a SOFTWARE issue. The device manufacturer has almost no hand in the software development of the phone. The hardware is a blank shell with documentation, and the community unpacks what is known about the hardware and use that knowledge to develop for the phone. Some of the developers are still learning about this chipset and how to implement proper audio and power management. Some of the firmware for the components in the phone are not completely open source, so the developers will need additional time to understand the device fully and implement fixes and features.
I believe your expectations are of a commercial phone, where the manufacturer develops the software and the hardware and the OS is just ready to go out of the box.
On the store page it is very clearly stated this an open source project and the hardware is what is being sold, not the promise of a fully functional day one phone.
For instance, the expectation that sleep and power work on the original Pinephone, therefore it should already be figured out for the Pro, doesn't take into account this is new hardware environment with a different processor and not everything about the new phone is understood or optimized yet.
This is not a commercial phone. The developers don't get paid a salary and barely scrape by donations if they even see that, and the amount of working features are only as advanced as the community developers for the distro that is being developed for the Pro.
I think we are all beating a dead horse at this point. The phone is not ready yet, but will be ready in time as advancements are made. The explorer edition is being sold as is for the hardware with the necessary disclaimers that make it clear the hardware is finished but software is still in beta.
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - linmob - 02-21-2022
Hello!
first of all: You're not alone. These problems are, as others explained, to be expected in this stage.
When the PINE64 Store says
Quote:The PinePhone Pro Explorer Edition is aimed at Linux developers with an extensive knowledge of embedded systems and/or experience with mobile Linux
it means that there's a lot of work to be done yet for this device to be usable as a phone yet. Also, you need to take into account that PINE64's mission is to provide FOSS developers with affordable hardware so that the developer community can build amazing software for it. With SBC's this was more rarely misunderstood, with the products that can be confused with consumer products, misunderstandings happen more frequently. Now they could add text, but unless it's short, nobody is going to read it (think Terms of Service). Sometimes I think they should add something like: "If you want to buy this device to just replace your current smartphone, please don't buy it now and come back in a while and see if this message was removed."
Back to your problem:
Quote:If this was found in the PP, why wasn't the fix included in development plan for the new chip for the PPP. Is suspend a distro setting or a desktop setting, or a system software (kernel) setting? In development, you're supposed to incorporate found fixes in the next version and not release the new version until important fixes are made.
Well, there is a development plan, that's why the current edition has the above cited caveat. As someone expecting to use this as your normal phone, you should not have bought one yet. But, as development is supposed to be done outside of the PINE64 organization in the PINE64 community and that community is assumed to be working best when it's open for everyone, you can just buy the PinePhone Pro without registering as a developer, and so were able to buy one.
To go a bit into the technical details (as far as I understand them):
The PinePhone Pro is using not only a different System on a Chip (the chip that bundles CPU, GPU and a lot more), but also one by a different manufacturer (Rockchip instead of AllWinner), so power management does not work the same way at all. Given that, it's actually quite amazing that some distributions can already wake up properly. Also, audio stuff works differently with this new SoC, so having working call audio already is also quite an achievement.
How long will it be until this all works properly and without bugs? Properly a long time, as suspend issues paired with USB resets and audio fun can be a can of worms, as the original PinePhone proves. This does not mean that we'll get to "mostly works" rather soon-ish (few months), but if you're unlucky, you'll hit by the rare bug often still in that stage.
For now, aside from trying what was already suggested, you could maybe get that unofficial battery case and turn off suspend altogether and thus have a much better chance to use the PinePhone Pro as a proper phone despite it not being ready yet for that use case.
Hope this helps!
RE: Possibly dysfunctional as a cell phone - kaida - 02-22-2022
(02-20-2022, 10:52 AM)tckosvic Wrote: It is not "recommended" to boot from an sd, it is forced by the UBoot files. You need special software to alter that sequence which is now becoming available, i.e., towboot. That makes a wierd startup sequence a lot stronger than a recommendation.
It's recommended for now to just install OS on the SD cause if you brick it you can easily reflash it , while if you brick an internal installation It's more hassle to get it back in a working state (Rk3999 boot on Internal first contrary to the A64 of the original PP)
Quote:Explain how power management is a user/deve/oper issue rather than a hardware/developer issue? How can a user/developer modify power issues? That is fundamental to distributing anything to be called a cell phone. Wouldn't basic power issue be handled at the bios level? Doesn't the bios come installed by the chip/mb manufacturer?There is no BIOS and the chip don't handle themself. Pine doesn't develop software they bring us hardware for us to develop.
Quote:OK, let me ask in a more simplistic manner. What software capabilities are installed on the phone before the OS/desktop? Are you saying none?Pretty much nothing if you remove the OS yes. unless you installed Tow-Boot yourself nothing interact with the phone before the Linux Kernel / OS