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+-- Forum: PinePhone (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=120)
+--- Forum: PinePhone Hardware (https://forum.pine64.org/forumdisplay.php?fid=122)
+--- Thread: Screen dying already? (/showthread.php?tid=13636)
RE: Screen dying already? - lot378 - 08-31-2021
Nope, what is really happening is everyone is dog-piling on with a sense of entitlement to their phone or screen either being requisitioned for inspection by Pine64 the same as you experienced or believing there is some grounds for a free or reduced cost replacement screen when there is no basis for that (at the moment). None of the OS for the phone had any good heat management code (particularly for the battery) implemented in the early months (see Megi's thread on PinePhones could literally catch fire they get so hot!) and I think that could be the very likely explanation for delamination occurring on screens.
I am well aware there is not a Pine64 retail store yet, however the point I was trying to make is that community users need to set expectations that are realistic.
I understand your resentment toward Pine64 in your position I could be feeling the same.
More likely, however, is that I would shrug my shoulders give my head a little wobble buy a new screen and enjoy tinkering around fitting it on to the phone.
And, then being curious to see if a fault happened again then figuring out why for myself.
RE: Screen dying already? - Gribouille - 08-31-2021
(08-31-2021, 08:41 AM)lot378 Wrote: Nope, what is really happening is everyone is dog-piling on with a sense of entitlement to their phone or screen either being requisitioned for inspection by Pine64 the same as you experienced or believing there is some grounds for a free or reduced cost replacement screen when there is no basis for that (at the moment). None of the OS for the phone had any good heat management code (particularly for the battery) implemented in the early months (see Megi's thread on PinePhones could literally catch fire they get so hot!) and I think that could be the very likely explanation for delamination occurring on screens.
I am well aware there is not a Pine64 retail store yet, however the point I was trying to make is that community users need to set expectations that are realistic.
I understand your resentment toward Pine64 in your position I could be feeling the same.
I'm not in the idea of 'dog-piling'. I've exposed some facts.
I have rapidly reduce the thermal limits.
We have a hardware problem . The situation is going worth, because there is no information, explication, nothing from the alone persons that can said something : Pine64.
I will be happy if Pine64 give me a long list of tests to do and ask me a clear report for each test, but nothing was proposed to try to understand the problem. Or Pine64 already knows the problem and doesn't want communicate on it.
At this point, the situation is the same, if I buy an other screen I don't know if I can't have the same problem.
Do you have make the little test about the counter of views for the thread https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=14680 ?
In find surprising the management of this counter for this thread. What is your opinion or explication ?
RE: Screen dying already? - as400 - 08-31-2021
Is "community" word an excuse for selling crap ? Actually I wouldn't be surprised they are selling pinephones made of parts that did not pass QC.
Look at this thread --> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=9832
Why about 30% of the phones have to go as low as 552 MHz to be stable ? And at the same time there are ones that happily work at 624 MHz ? One of mine phones worked stable only with 492 MHz. Think for yourself and answer this question with honesty.
When working on pbp uboot, at certain moment, there was a lot of people that could not run it without kernel hang at boot. While my pbp was happily running my uboot even being overclocked substantially.
There is no other answer except of that the parts are just completely different in terms of quality.
RE: Screen dying already? - marcih - 08-31-2021
(08-31-2021, 08:41 AM)lot378 Wrote: see Megi's thread on PinePhones could literally catch fire they get so hot!
Interesting you should mention that. You seem to be fine with insufficient to non-existent QC on the PP and PBP, would you defend the manufacturer just the same if one of those devices' battery blew up?
(08-31-2021, 08:41 AM)lot378 Wrote: I understand your resentment toward Pine64 in your position I could be feeling the same.
There is no resentment on my side, I'm more concerned about PINE64 giving me a made up tracking number. There is a slim chance it's just an honest mistake but it's starting to look to me like stalling and deliberate lies.
(08-31-2021, 09:06 AM)as400 Wrote: One of mine phones worked stable only with 492 MHz.
My phone had one of those "unstable" memory modules too. I remember reading somewhere (perhaps that thread you linked) that according to the spec sheet, the memory is supposed to work up until 800 or so MHz, much higher than even the highest speeds that people could achieve any stability with. I must be grossly misremembering things, this is the closest thing I could find in the thread.
(08-31-2021, 10:40 AM)marcih Wrote: There is a slim chance it's just an honest mistake but it's starting to look to me like stalling and deliberate lies.
Actually, I'm retracting that statement. I found an obscure website run by my country's postal service which recognises the given tracking number and the entries match what the PINE64 support representative told me. My fault (or my country's postal service's fault for having like 3 different websites where you can enter a tracking number
) on that one.
RE: Screen dying already? - lot378 - 08-31-2021
I agree, Pine64 might have been more explicit about warnings over the heat problem and OS not in full support yet. May be that was down to the OS providers to dot the "i"s and cross the "t"s they were after all being funded by the community via Pine64 (the OS providers ignored the issue, pretty much). Megi as part of the community helped to provide awareness instead.
Well, the thread view count may be that MyBB is set to delay thread view count updates until a certain moment. Or just the thread is not very interesting. :p
The count does not update for me when I visit it, assuming this is because I've read it before.
I knew about the memory speed issue it certainly is a problem that indicates parts may have been substituted -- definitely raised an eyebrow here.
Good news about the tracking number! I hope the replacement phone arrives soon.
May be it will be a cardboard box full of parts to assemble yourself! :p
RE: Screen dying already? - calinb - 08-31-2021
As an anecdotal warranty service data point, my Pinebook Pro screen backlighting failed in its first day of use, rendering the screen unusable. It took nearly three weeks to complete a round trip to the Pine64 service center, located only two US states away, and I had to pay for the shipping to the center. I believe Pine64's warranty service was acceptable, but given that the PBP only worked for a few hours after I received it, it was not commendable. I've had experiences with other non-"community" business model companies that have immediately sent me a replacement product, along with a pre-paid return shipping sticker, after experiencing even less immediate infant mortality failures.
My 9 month old Pinephone will need a new screen soon. Once again, I accept the warranty limitations but, given that these Pinephone LCD failures are latent and take months to manifest, I'm concerned that new replacement screens will continue to be defective in high numbers. In buying a replacement screen, I'm worried that I could be throwing more good money after bad with the expectation of satisfactorily and permanently correcting an uncorrectable problem. Priced at 47 USD, including standard non-courier shipping costs, the screen is not cheap. If all the screens are defective, 50+ USD per year for periodic screen replacements is about half of what I've been paying for my pre-paid cellular service--assuming the screens continue to be available!
I'd like to know the Pinephone screen FIT (failure in time) data. I'd also like to hear from Pine64 that the screen defect has been identified and corrected within Pine's inventory of screens. Sadly, if Pine has the same warranty deal with its vendors as we have with Pine, then Pine might be in possession of a sizable inventory of defective screens, with no recourse other than to discard the screens at a great monetary loss, or pass them off to the Pine community.
RE: Screen dying already? - marcih - 08-31-2021
(08-31-2021, 11:42 AM)lot378 Wrote: I agree, Pine64 might have been more explicit about warnings over the heat problem and OS not in full support yet. May be that was down to the OS providers to dot the "i"s and cross the "t"s they were after all being funded by the community via Pine64 (the OS providers ignored the issue, pretty much). Megi as part of the community helped to provide awareness instead.
I do hope that the issue doesn't crop up again but I'm personally skeptical that the heat was the catalyst... I'm currently using an old Huawei P7-L10 as a temporary replacement for my PP (that I also use for the few things that still need Android, like Signal) and that phone gets hotter than my PP ever did without any delamination issues. Same thing happened with when I still had my Lumia 950, it actually got too hot to touch at some points when charging, especially around launch when Windows 10 Mobile was in an awful state (not saying it ever got much better
but at least the temperature wasn't as bad). The Lumia had an OLED screen but the Huawei has an IPS LCD panel like the PinePhone...(08-31-2021, 11:42 AM)lot378 Wrote: Good news about the tracking number! I hope the replacement phone arrives soon.
May be it will be a cardboard box full of parts to assemble yourself! :p
I did actually suggest to them to just send me my old phone back with a screen I can replace myself but I guess sending a full replacement was easier for them?
I'm still baffled why they had no problem replacing my phone but shut down other people with the exact some issue though; I think that's the real point of contention, why are some people treated different than others? Is it because I'm an EU citizen?
RE: Screen dying already? - lot378 - 08-31-2021
Well, seems like I need to provide more reasoning: all those devices you mentioned already had thermal safeguarding implemented fully in their OS so if they got a little warm, it was all within safe parameters. The PinePhone, for months had missing safeguards most notably on the battery and charging and there was a lot of stories of PinePhones getting very, very hot. It is easy to join dots and conclude this is behind screen delamination. May be we might have a full explanation one day but until then this explanation suffices for me.
No, I don't think it was because you're an EU citizen, it's because you were first probably that documented it and got Pine64's attention.
RE: Screen dying already? - Gribouille - 09-01-2021
(08-31-2021, 11:42 AM)lot378 Wrote: Well, the thread view count may be that MyBB is set to delay thread view count updates until a certain moment. Or just the thread is not very interesting. :p
The count does not update for me when I visit it, assuming this is because I've read it before.
If I propose to check the counter, it's because I have verified that there is something abnormal. I've use a Tor Browser in anonymous mode, even in resetting the Tor's circuit. The counter doesn't increment each visit. I have video to prove this. The consequence is that an embarrassing thread will disappear. The test was already done in this thread by someone else. The question could be asked if this is intentional.
I have sent a message to @Luke (08-21-2021) and @tllim (08-27-2021) indicating that there is a problem with the counter of views. I have NO reply.
A technical problem could occur. I have seen this situation with Onyx for the M90 e-reader : functional but with a bug for the usage. After many complaints (see Mobileread.com's forum), the proposition was done to sell the new model M92 with a big discount to the M90 owners. The seller has communicated, accepted to recognized that there is a problem. Everyone appreciate this solution, even if it has a cost for some users. The confidence was restored in Onyx. In my case, after that I bought the M92 (9.7") and the Max2 - 13".
One time again, NOTHING from Pine64. Lets the users discuss between them is not a solution to solve this hardware problem.
RE: Screen dying already? - kqlnut - 09-01-2021
(09-01-2021, 01:53 AM)Gribouille Wrote: If I propose to check the counter, it's because I have verified that there is something abnormal. I've use a Tor Browser in anonymous mode, even in resetting the Tor's circuit. The counter doesn't increment each visit. I have video to prove this. The consequence is that an embarrassing thread will disappear. The test was already done in this thread by someone else. The question could be asked if this is intentional.
I wouldn't read too much into this, I highly doubt this is intentional if even possible to do intentionally without going out of one's way. The first other thread I tried this on because I was curious also doesn't increase the counter (although some other ones I tried after worked, so probably just some bug). And who cares if it has a handful of views more or less, only if it gets participation it will be more prominent. (If anything, you should rather contact a forum admin about this than the company itself.)
But back to topic: A heat problem may seem plausible, but all the reports were from the Manjaro CE batch or later. It makes sense that there are not many reports from very recent batches because they haven't been in use that long. And also from the early editions like Braveheart because they were probably used more for development and trying stuff out than for daily regular use. But I would expect that at least the PostmarketOS CE phones have been used quite a lot by now and probably in a similar manner as the Manjaro ones. So maybe a bad batch of screens or something in the supply chain changed?