<![CDATA[PINE64 - All Forums]]> https://forum.pine64.org/ Sun, 27 Sep 2026 18:13:54 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[Firmware update only did partial upgrade?]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20378 Sat, 26 Sep 2026 00:02:58 +0000 Agent24]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20378
The original modem firmware was EG25GGBR07A08M2G_01.001.01.001

I tried updating to 01.002.01.002 with the fastboot command, but it only seems to have half worked, or something.
I used the information here: https://github.com/the-modem-distro/pine...LASHING.md

I got a message like this with a warning:
Code:
~/Downloads $ fastboot flash modem NON-HLOS.ubi && fastboot reboot
Warning: skip copying modem image avb footer (modem partition size: 0, modem image size: 41025536).
Sending 'modem' (40064 KB)                        OKAY [  1.281s]
Writing 'modem'                                    OKAY [ 12.747s]
Finished. Total time: 14.051s
Rebooting                                          OKAY [  0.018s]
Finished. Total time: 0.073s

When the modem rebooted, the version number was not 01.002.01.002, but 01.002.01.001 instead.
I tried upgrading to 01.003.01.003 and it's the same problem.

The given echo command to set the modem into fastboot did not work for me, I get an error that /dev/ttyUSB2 could not be created:

Code:
/bin/ash: can't create /dev/ttyUSB2: Permission denied

I used the following instead:

Code:
~ $ echo "AT+QFASTBOOT" | sudo atinout
- /dev/ttyUSB2 - > ./fboot.txt
doas (user@pine64-pinephone) password:
EOF from modem

Does anyone know what to do? Thanks!]]>
The original modem firmware was EG25GGBR07A08M2G_01.001.01.001

I tried updating to 01.002.01.002 with the fastboot command, but it only seems to have half worked, or something.
I used the information here: https://github.com/the-modem-distro/pine...LASHING.md

I got a message like this with a warning:
Code:
~/Downloads $ fastboot flash modem NON-HLOS.ubi && fastboot reboot
Warning: skip copying modem image avb footer (modem partition size: 0, modem image size: 41025536).
Sending 'modem' (40064 KB)                        OKAY [  1.281s]
Writing 'modem'                                    OKAY [ 12.747s]
Finished. Total time: 14.051s
Rebooting                                          OKAY [  0.018s]
Finished. Total time: 0.073s

When the modem rebooted, the version number was not 01.002.01.002, but 01.002.01.001 instead.
I tried upgrading to 01.003.01.003 and it's the same problem.

The given echo command to set the modem into fastboot did not work for me, I get an error that /dev/ttyUSB2 could not be created:

Code:
/bin/ash: can't create /dev/ttyUSB2: Permission denied

I used the following instead:

Code:
~ $ echo "AT+QFASTBOOT" | sudo atinout
- /dev/ttyUSB2 - > ./fboot.txt
doas (user@pine64-pinephone) password:
EOF from modem

Does anyone know what to do? Thanks!]]> <![CDATA[PINEPOCALYPSE (pics included)]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20375 Sun, 20 Sep 2026 01:12:24 +0000 pineymousepad]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20375
Years later again I got some time to work on it again, charging led good, power ON LED good, no display, cracked open the lid (10 SCREWS  Angry ) and noticed the LCD connector was disconnected (why) so I reconnected that and flicked the emmc switch towards the hinge... NOW IT WONT TURN ON THE POWER LED WHEN I PRESS THE POWER BUTTON  Angry

After reading some trouble shooting it said to pull out the power connector and reattach the display socket, I did so and that thing was like pulling a pinecone out of ur ass it was so tight the corner of the white thing snapped off ;_;.. After connecting all of that it still wont power on where it just was before I reattached the display connector, and flicked the emmc switch.. Idk if the power connector is totalled now, photos attached. I tried pressing the power button for like 15 seconds doesnt work with or without charging (charging LED is still working).  Armbian was nice while it worked..

.jpg   pine lesbianconnector.jpg (Size: 469.3 KB / Downloads: 48)

.jpg   pine hemmeroid.jpg (Size: 380.11 KB / Downloads: 36)

.jpg   pine ass.jpg (Size: 425.17 KB / Downloads: 31)

.jpg   pineview.jpg (Size: 414.45 KB / Downloads: 34)

.jpg   pineview 2.jpg (Size: 416.62 KB / Downloads: 39) ]]>
Years later again I got some time to work on it again, charging led good, power ON LED good, no display, cracked open the lid (10 SCREWS  Angry ) and noticed the LCD connector was disconnected (why) so I reconnected that and flicked the emmc switch towards the hinge... NOW IT WONT TURN ON THE POWER LED WHEN I PRESS THE POWER BUTTON  Angry

After reading some trouble shooting it said to pull out the power connector and reattach the display socket, I did so and that thing was like pulling a pinecone out of ur ass it was so tight the corner of the white thing snapped off ;_;.. After connecting all of that it still wont power on where it just was before I reattached the display connector, and flicked the emmc switch.. Idk if the power connector is totalled now, photos attached. I tried pressing the power button for like 15 seconds doesnt work with or without charging (charging LED is still working).  Armbian was nice while it worked..

.jpg   pine lesbianconnector.jpg (Size: 469.3 KB / Downloads: 48)

.jpg   pine hemmeroid.jpg (Size: 380.11 KB / Downloads: 36)

.jpg   pine ass.jpg (Size: 425.17 KB / Downloads: 31)

.jpg   pineview.jpg (Size: 414.45 KB / Downloads: 34)

.jpg   pineview 2.jpg (Size: 416.62 KB / Downloads: 39) ]]> <![CDATA[PinePhone2 and Cricket Wireless, and VLC? And music alarms?]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20372 Mon, 07 Sep 2026 20:19:23 +0000 The Almighty Doer of Stuff]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20372
Also, do VLC Media Player and Brave Browser work with PinePhone2? I can switch to Firefox if I need to, I just found that Firefox was slow last time I tried to use it on my phone.

Also, I've been using Alarm Clock Xtreme from AVG for years, but I'm not sure it will be supported through 2027. I like that it lets me set daily and weekly alarms and appointment reminders with music from my collection. Are there alternatives to that app available for PinePhone2? It's OK if I have to use two separate apps, one for alarms and one for reminders. Really I should be using a calendar instead of one-off reminders but I don't like Google's calendar app. 

Lastly, how is the battery life? Can I replace the battery on a PinePhone 2? I know most phones don't let you do that but I wonder if this more open alternative bucks that trend. That would be cool.

I'm sorry for asking so many questions in one thread. I don't really know if it's best to split it up or not. I'm kinda scared right now and I'm just looking for some hope in an increasingly scary world. FOSS software always made me happy.]]>
Also, do VLC Media Player and Brave Browser work with PinePhone2? I can switch to Firefox if I need to, I just found that Firefox was slow last time I tried to use it on my phone.

Also, I've been using Alarm Clock Xtreme from AVG for years, but I'm not sure it will be supported through 2027. I like that it lets me set daily and weekly alarms and appointment reminders with music from my collection. Are there alternatives to that app available for PinePhone2? It's OK if I have to use two separate apps, one for alarms and one for reminders. Really I should be using a calendar instead of one-off reminders but I don't like Google's calendar app. 

Lastly, how is the battery life? Can I replace the battery on a PinePhone 2? I know most phones don't let you do that but I wonder if this more open alternative bucks that trend. That would be cool.

I'm sorry for asking so many questions in one thread. I don't really know if it's best to split it up or not. I'm kinda scared right now and I'm just looking for some hope in an increasingly scary world. FOSS software always made me happy.]]> <![CDATA[rock64-android10-tv patchset for Firely]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20370 Sun, 06 Sep 2026 17:52:58 +0000 AlexS]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20370 https://github.com/vtsick/rock64-android10-tv]]> https://github.com/vtsick/rock64-android10-tv]]> <![CDATA[Thinking about memory bottlenecks and the potential for DDR5 in future builds]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20367 Wed, 02 Sep 2026 07:21:09 +0000 xiley32050]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20367 Hey everyone,
I’ve been a long-time lurker here and a huge fan of the Pine64 ecosystem for a few years now. My journey started with a Pinebook Pro that I used as a dedicated "distro-hopping" machine, and more recently, I’ve been experimenting with a small cluster of Quartz64 boards for some home automation and a localized private cloud.
One thing that’s been on my mind lately, especially as I start pushing more containerized workloads and heavier database tasks, is the "memory ceiling" we often hit with SBCs. I’ve noticed a specific point in a few recent dev threads discussing how we can better optimize swap and zram, but it really makes me wonder about the hardware side of things.
I recently did a refresh on my main desktop/home server, moving it up to a 16GB kit of DDR5-4800MHz memory. It’s that PC5-38400 spec, and honestly, seeing the jump in raw bandwidth compared to my older DDR4 rig was a bit of a wake-up call. It’s not just about the capacity; it’s how quickly the system can move data for multitasking and heavy I/O. It made me realize how much I’ve grown accustomed to the snappiness of higher-frequency RAM in the x86 world, and it left me wishing for a bit of that "oomph" in my ARM projects.
I know we’re dealing with completely different power envelopes and thermal constraints here, but as we see more powerful SoCs coming down the pipeline, I can't help but dream of a Pine64 board that supports something like the PC5-38400 standard. Even if it was soldered LPDDR5 to save on space, that extra bandwidth would be a game-changer for things like local LLMs or high-speed data processing at the edge.
I’ve been trying to find ways to squeeze more life out of my current 4GB and 8GB LPDDR4 setups, but there’s only so much software tuning can do when you're physically limited by the bus speed.
Does anyone here have insight into the current SoC roadmaps—are we likely to see DDR5 support in the next generation of boards, or do the power requirements and complexity of routing those high-frequency traces make it a "no-go" for affordable hobbyist hardware for the time being?]]> Hey everyone,
I’ve been a long-time lurker here and a huge fan of the Pine64 ecosystem for a few years now. My journey started with a Pinebook Pro that I used as a dedicated "distro-hopping" machine, and more recently, I’ve been experimenting with a small cluster of Quartz64 boards for some home automation and a localized private cloud.
One thing that’s been on my mind lately, especially as I start pushing more containerized workloads and heavier database tasks, is the "memory ceiling" we often hit with SBCs. I’ve noticed a specific point in a few recent dev threads discussing how we can better optimize swap and zram, but it really makes me wonder about the hardware side of things.
I recently did a refresh on my main desktop/home server, moving it up to a 16GB kit of DDR5-4800MHz memory. It’s that PC5-38400 spec, and honestly, seeing the jump in raw bandwidth compared to my older DDR4 rig was a bit of a wake-up call. It’s not just about the capacity; it’s how quickly the system can move data for multitasking and heavy I/O. It made me realize how much I’ve grown accustomed to the snappiness of higher-frequency RAM in the x86 world, and it left me wishing for a bit of that "oomph" in my ARM projects.
I know we’re dealing with completely different power envelopes and thermal constraints here, but as we see more powerful SoCs coming down the pipeline, I can't help but dream of a Pine64 board that supports something like the PC5-38400 standard. Even if it was soldered LPDDR5 to save on space, that extra bandwidth would be a game-changer for things like local LLMs or high-speed data processing at the edge.
I’ve been trying to find ways to squeeze more life out of my current 4GB and 8GB LPDDR4 setups, but there’s only so much software tuning can do when you're physically limited by the bus speed.
Does anyone here have insight into the current SoC roadmaps—are we likely to see DDR5 support in the next generation of boards, or do the power requirements and complexity of routing those high-frequency traces make it a "no-go" for affordable hobbyist hardware for the time being?]]> <![CDATA[Hardware Feature Suggestion for Quartz64: SPI Flash Hardware Write-Protect]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20366 Mon, 31 Aug 2026 01:19:48 +0000 Independent Researcher]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20366
First of all, thank you for providing amazing open-source hardware to the community. I am a developer, privacy enthusiast, and independent researcher, and I would like to propose a simple yet high-value hardware revision for future batches of the Quartz64 or upcoming single-board computers. Currently, the board relies on DIP switches for boot priority, which is firmware-based and does not physically cut the power line for the SPI Flash write operations.

For users focused on sovereign security, physical containment, and preventing persistent firmware implants (rootkits), having a Hardware Write-Protect (WP# linked to GND via a physical Jumper or a Screw mechanism)—similar to the Chromebook write-protect screw—is crucial. Adding small exposed copper jumper pads (open pads) between Pin 3 (WP#) and Pin 4 (GND) on the PCB layout would allow advanced privacy users to bridge them and achieve true physical, air-gapped read-only isolation for the Tow-Boot/SPI flash.

Furthermore, for PINE64 boards that come with a pre-soldered SPI Flash from the factory, we strongly suggest shipping them with a clean, verified, and officially signed open-source bootloader (like Tow-Boot) pre-flashed out of the box. Many security-conscious buyers operate in highly compromised, untrusted, or heavily monitored network environments where flashing a clean image locally from scratch is incredibly risky or nearly impossible without immediate interception. Shipping the hardware with a factory-guaranteed clean bootloader would provide a secure and immutable root of trust immediately upon unboxing.

I highly recommend offering these as design standards in your upcoming revisions, or even as an optional manufacturing configuration toggle for a small extra fee. It would make PINE64 the ultimate choice for the global privacy and secure-boot developer community.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this hardware implementation.]]>
First of all, thank you for providing amazing open-source hardware to the community. I am a developer, privacy enthusiast, and independent researcher, and I would like to propose a simple yet high-value hardware revision for future batches of the Quartz64 or upcoming single-board computers. Currently, the board relies on DIP switches for boot priority, which is firmware-based and does not physically cut the power line for the SPI Flash write operations.

For users focused on sovereign security, physical containment, and preventing persistent firmware implants (rootkits), having a Hardware Write-Protect (WP# linked to GND via a physical Jumper or a Screw mechanism)—similar to the Chromebook write-protect screw—is crucial. Adding small exposed copper jumper pads (open pads) between Pin 3 (WP#) and Pin 4 (GND) on the PCB layout would allow advanced privacy users to bridge them and achieve true physical, air-gapped read-only isolation for the Tow-Boot/SPI flash.

Furthermore, for PINE64 boards that come with a pre-soldered SPI Flash from the factory, we strongly suggest shipping them with a clean, verified, and officially signed open-source bootloader (like Tow-Boot) pre-flashed out of the box. Many security-conscious buyers operate in highly compromised, untrusted, or heavily monitored network environments where flashing a clean image locally from scratch is incredibly risky or nearly impossible without immediate interception. Shipping the hardware with a factory-guaranteed clean bootloader would provide a secure and immutable root of trust immediately upon unboxing.

I highly recommend offering these as design standards in your upcoming revisions, or even as an optional manufacturing configuration toggle for a small extra fee. It would make PINE64 the ultimate choice for the global privacy and secure-boot developer community.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this hardware implementation.]]> <![CDATA[Single-board computers and the art of companionable coexistence: Has anyone ever pair]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20365 Sun, 30 Aug 2026 02:12:53 +0000 Spaker]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20365



MeetAgree.com
Your city's hottest girls are here ]]>



MeetAgree.com
Your city's hottest girls are here ]]> <![CDATA[Pinecil as a Pocket-Sized Wingman?]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20363 Thu, 27 Aug 2026 15:15:21 +0000 Arsen]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20363


MeetPrettyGirls.com
Find a girl to share the night with ]]>


MeetPrettyGirls.com
Find a girl to share the night with ]]> <![CDATA[SlateOS feedback needed!]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20362 Mon, 24 Aug 2026 14:00:37 +0000 highjumpman]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20362
- Vibration toggle
- Optimisation of app to watch comms
- A fix for the launcher not being available after reconnecting
- The companion app now finds the app after it was away from the phone

I would really like your feedback! I'm also curious for more sub-app ideas, and if anyone has tried writing their own.]]>
- Vibration toggle
- Optimisation of app to watch comms
- A fix for the launcher not being available after reconnecting
- The companion app now finds the app after it was away from the phone

I would really like your feedback! I'm also curious for more sub-app ideas, and if anyone has tried writing their own.]]> <![CDATA[RAM-free SBCs with SODIMM slots]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20356 Thu, 20 Aug 2026 14:21:58 +0000 anchor]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20356
This could have several advantages:

- Much lower base price

- No need for separate 4/8/16/32 GB SKUs

- Users can choose the amount of RAM they need

- RAM could be upgraded later

- Less dependency on onboard RAM availability

Any thoughts?]]>
This could have several advantages:

- Much lower base price

- No need for separate 4/8/16/32 GB SKUs

- Users can choose the amount of RAM they need

- RAM could be upgraded later

- Less dependency on onboard RAM availability

Any thoughts?]]> <![CDATA[Default password]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20355 Thu, 20 Aug 2026 11:02:27 +0000 dissimilar_goose]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20355
The username alarm is the one it wants me to log in to but none of the passwords I've tried have worked]]>
The username alarm is the one it wants me to log in to but none of the passwords I've tried have worked]]> <![CDATA[New SlateOS features]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20351 Tue, 18 Aug 2026 01:47:44 +0000 highjumpman]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20351 Github:
  • Fix for accelerometer.
  • Fix for overlapping buttons on the watch.
  • Fix for recurring notification vibrations.
  • Companion app UI reworked.
  • Shake-to-wake in addition to raise to wake.
  • Sensitivity settings for both accel-based wake methods.
  • Deactivation of face diagnostics.
  • Notification on the watch.
  • Watch screen navigation indicators.
  • Watch face, button and text colours!
  • Media control sub-app (tested with Spotify).
  • Weather sub-app with tides (I live near the sea) (uses phone GPS).
  • Turn-by-turn Navigation sub-app for OsmAnd Free and Pro (no affiliation there!). Start navigation in OsmAnd and open the Vavigtation sub-app on the watch.
  • RSS news reader sub app (configure via its settings in the companion app sub-app repository).
  • Companion app sub-app connectors for http, calendar, alarms, HealthConnect, Home Assistant.
]]> Github:
  • Fix for accelerometer.
  • Fix for overlapping buttons on the watch.
  • Fix for recurring notification vibrations.
  • Companion app UI reworked.
  • Shake-to-wake in addition to raise to wake.
  • Sensitivity settings for both accel-based wake methods.
  • Deactivation of face diagnostics.
  • Notification on the watch.
  • Watch screen navigation indicators.
  • Watch face, button and text colours!
  • Media control sub-app (tested with Spotify).
  • Weather sub-app with tides (I live near the sea) (uses phone GPS).
  • Turn-by-turn Navigation sub-app for OsmAnd Free and Pro (no affiliation there!). Start navigation in OsmAnd and open the Vavigtation sub-app on the watch.
  • RSS news reader sub app (configure via its settings in the companion app sub-app repository).
  • Companion app sub-app connectors for http, calendar, alarms, HealthConnect, Home Assistant.
]]> <![CDATA[Newbie questions]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20350 Fri, 14 Aug 2026 02:09:07 +0000 TouchuvGrey]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20350
             i'm Mike from Australia and am considering buying a PineTime watch.

      i would prefer to sync/connect it directly to my linux compter. if necessary, through a 
Samsung  s21

        i get the watch in the post. i open the box. i charge it.

      What do i need to do after that ?   Their website is anything but clear.

     Are there any fitness apps that work with PineTime ?

        Does PineTime count calories burned ?

                                                                       Mike]]>
             i'm Mike from Australia and am considering buying a PineTime watch.

      i would prefer to sync/connect it directly to my linux compter. if necessary, through a 
Samsung  s21

        i get the watch in the post. i open the box. i charge it.

      What do i need to do after that ?   Their website is anything but clear.

     Are there any fitness apps that work with PineTime ?

        Does PineTime count calories burned ?

                                                                       Mike]]> <![CDATA[Beta test Signal Desktop for Linux ARM64]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20349 Tue, 11 Aug 2026 14:57:04 +0000 as365n4]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20349 Quote:Hi everyone,

We’ve been working on Linux ARM64 support and it’s now available for beta testing. There are Debian and AppImage packages available. We’d appreciate your help testing it on your favorite ARM processor! Please let us know how it goes and share your feedback here. https://community.signalusers.org/t/sign...64/9001/90

Debian and AppImage packages are available direct from Signal, please follow the steps in the link below.
https://community.signalusers.org/t/beta...rm64/76184

Arch Linux ARM packages are available through pacman
Code:
sudo pacman -S signal-desktop
and via AUR
Code:
yay -S signal-desktop-beta

Anyone interessted in testing on PinePhone and PinePhonePRO please use the "Desktop" image and give feedback to Signal via the links above to their cummunity forum.]]> Quote:Hi everyone,

We’ve been working on Linux ARM64 support and it’s now available for beta testing. There are Debian and AppImage packages available. We’d appreciate your help testing it on your favorite ARM processor! Please let us know how it goes and share your feedback here. https://community.signalusers.org/t/sign...64/9001/90

Debian and AppImage packages are available direct from Signal, please follow the steps in the link below.
https://community.signalusers.org/t/beta...rm64/76184

Arch Linux ARM packages are available through pacman
Code:
sudo pacman -S signal-desktop
and via AUR
Code:
yay -S signal-desktop-beta

Anyone interessted in testing on PinePhone and PinePhonePRO please use the "Desktop" image and give feedback to Signal via the links above to their cummunity forum.]]> <![CDATA[SlateOS for PineTime]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20348 Tue, 11 Aug 2026 10:57:54 +0000 highjumpman]]> https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=20348
I humbly present SlateOS, a new open-source firmware for the PineTime, which supports JavaScript sub-apps that can be sideloaded without changing the firmware. Its low-level functions are based on InfiniTime and, in turn, FreeRTOS, so a big thank you to all those involved in these projects!

https://github.com/LeaCreative/SlateOS

I love my PineTime and wanted to be able to easily create apps for it. So I came up with the idea of using the watch as a thin client for my Android phone. In offline mode, the  SlateOS offers watch face, step counter and heart rate sensing.

Connect it to the companion app on your phone and you can open the app launcher, which the app populates. The JS sub-apps, basically packaged JS code, run on your phone in the companion app, which tells the watch what to draw and accepts user input. This enables use of the phone's hardware, such as its GPS receiver.

In the companion app you can select which sub-apps you want listed in SlateOS' launcher. You can write your own JS sub-apps and I can't wait to see what you come up with! Just please read the sub-app rules doc, so that you'll be able to get it right.

I'd love to hear what you think about this!

Cheers,
Daniel]]>
I humbly present SlateOS, a new open-source firmware for the PineTime, which supports JavaScript sub-apps that can be sideloaded without changing the firmware. Its low-level functions are based on InfiniTime and, in turn, FreeRTOS, so a big thank you to all those involved in these projects!

https://github.com/LeaCreative/SlateOS

I love my PineTime and wanted to be able to easily create apps for it. So I came up with the idea of using the watch as a thin client for my Android phone. In offline mode, the  SlateOS offers watch face, step counter and heart rate sensing.

Connect it to the companion app on your phone and you can open the app launcher, which the app populates. The JS sub-apps, basically packaged JS code, run on your phone in the companion app, which tells the watch what to draw and accepts user input. This enables use of the phone's hardware, such as its GPS receiver.

In the companion app you can select which sub-apps you want listed in SlateOS' launcher. You can write your own JS sub-apps and I can't wait to see what you come up with! Just please read the sub-app rules doc, so that you'll be able to get it right.

I'd love to hear what you think about this!

Cheers,
Daniel]]>