Pine64 storage
#11
(01-08-2016, 03:31 PM)baylf2000 Wrote: Sorry, but that's complete nonsense. The board supports those card sizes. That doesn't mean it runs them at their maximum speed. The speed limitation lies in the way these cheap arm boards implement the SD card interface. 
Getting anything greater than about 25MB/s from an SD card requires implementing the specialised UHS I/II standards, and I have never seen an arm dev board do this. I have more than twenty boards on my desk including several very recent releases, and NONE of them implement the special UHS standards.

I'm told that the UHS standards require specialised clock rates, voltages and some specialised proprietary/licensed IP that is not publicly available, hence it's lack of availability in cheap arm socs.

(01-08-2016, 07:02 AM)Andrew2 Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 12:54 AM)baylf2000 Wrote: Please tell me this isn't yet ANOTHER potentially brilliant ARM board that has been horribly disabled by the incredible short sightedness of it's developers in not including some kind of fast storage.

The A64 used on the board lacks I/O capabilities. It's that simple and that's the reason why the board is cheap.

There is one USB host port and one USB OTG port (not a full replacement for a host port), there's SDIO for SD card and there's eMMC that's not useable here since pins are already muxed for different purposes.

The good news: http://linux-sunxi.org/USB/UAS (when mainline kernel support will be ready sometimes in the future. According to linux-sunxi devs the A64 seems like a H3 with less USB ports and ARMv8 cores otherwise identical)

Yes, and that's where I see the problem. The pins meant for high-speed storage have instead been devoted to an excessive number of GPIO pins that 99% of the people who buy this board will never, ever use.

The kickstarter supporters of this board will read all the marketing hype from the creators about using it as some kind of GUI capable mini-computer, and they'll be HORRIBLY disappointed, just as anyone has who has tried to use any of these otherwise capable development boards in that way.

This is not being marketed as an industrial control board, so why do you need dozens of GPIO ports? It is being marketed as a small, cheap "super computer", but no board that relies on a ridiculously slow SD card interface for storage will ever be acceptably usable in that way.

Because Pine64 Web have not talked about speed , Please give your information  ,  proof this is my nonsense , because i can't know , don't asked is your told that .

Thank !
  Reply
#12
(01-08-2016, 07:55 PM)joe Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 03:31 PM)baylf2000 Wrote: Sorry, but that's complete nonsense. The board supports those card sizes. That doesn't mean it runs them at their maximum speed. The speed limitation lies in the way these cheap arm boards implement the SD card interface. 
Getting anything greater than about 25MB/s from an SD card requires implementing the specialised UHS I/II standards, and I have never seen an arm dev board do this. I have more than twenty boards on my desk including several very recent releases, and NONE of them implement the special UHS standards.

I'm told that the UHS standards require specialised clock rates, voltages and some specialised proprietary/licensed IP that is not publicly available, hence it's lack of availability in cheap arm socs.

(01-08-2016, 07:02 AM)Andrew2 Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 12:54 AM)baylf2000 Wrote: Please tell me this isn't yet ANOTHER potentially brilliant ARM board that has been horribly disabled by the incredible short sightedness of it's developers in not including some kind of fast storage.

The A64 used on the board lacks I/O capabilities. It's that simple and that's the reason why the board is cheap.

There is one USB host port and one USB OTG port (not a full replacement for a host port), there's SDIO for SD card and there's eMMC that's not useable here since pins are already muxed for different purposes.

The good news: http://linux-sunxi.org/USB/UAS (when mainline kernel support will be ready sometimes in the future. According to linux-sunxi devs the A64 seems like a H3 with less USB ports and ARMv8 cores otherwise identical)

Yes, and that's where I see the problem. The pins meant for high-speed storage have instead been devoted to an excessive number of GPIO pins that 99% of the people who buy this board will never, ever use.

The kickstarter supporters of this board will read all the marketing hype from the creators about using it as some kind of GUI capable mini-computer, and they'll be HORRIBLY disappointed, just as anyone has who has tried to use any of these otherwise capable development boards in that way.

This is not being marketed as an industrial control board, so why do you need dozens of GPIO ports? It is being marketed as a small, cheap "super computer", but no board that relies on a ridiculously slow SD card interface for storage will ever be acceptably usable in that way.

Because Pine64 Web have not talked about speed , Please give your information  ,  proof this is my nonsense , because i can't know , don't asked is your told that .

Thank !

Sorry, but I have no idea what you're trying to say. Your English is broken.
  Reply
#13
(01-09-2016, 02:45 AM)joe Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 02:00 AM)baylf2000 Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 07:55 PM)joe Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 03:31 PM)baylf2000 Wrote: Sorry, but that's complete nonsense. The board supports those card sizes. That doesn't mean it runs them at their maximum speed. The speed limitation lies in the way these cheap arm boards implement the SD card interface. 
Getting anything greater than about 25MB/s from an SD card requires implementing the specialised UHS I/II standards, and I have never seen an arm dev board do this. I have more than twenty boards on my desk including several very recent releases, and NONE of them implement the special UHS standards.

I'm told that the UHS standards require specialised clock rates, voltages and some specialised proprietary/licensed IP that is not publicly available, hence it's lack of availability in cheap arm socs.

(01-08-2016, 07:02 AM)Andrew2 Wrote: The A64 used on the board lacks I/O capabilities. It's that simple and that's the reason why the board is cheap.

There is one USB host port and one USB OTG port (not a full replacement for a host port), there's SDIO for SD card and there's eMMC that's not useable here since pins are already muxed for different purposes.

The good news: http://linux-sunxi.org/USB/UAS (when mainline kernel support will be ready sometimes in the future. According to linux-sunxi devs the A64 seems like a H3 with less USB ports and ARMv8 cores otherwise identical)

Yes, and that's where I see the problem. The pins meant for high-speed storage have instead been devoted to an excessive number of GPIO pins that 99% of the people who buy this board will never, ever use.

The kickstarter supporters of this board will read all the marketing hype from the creators about using it as some kind of GUI capable mini-computer, and they'll be HORRIBLY disappointed, just as anyone has who has tried to use any of these otherwise capable development boards in that way.

This is not being marketed as an industrial control board, so why do you need dozens of GPIO ports? It is being marketed as a small, cheap "super computer", but no board that relies on a ridiculously slow SD card interface for storage will ever be acceptably usable in that way.

Because Pine64 Web have not talked about speed , Please give your information  ,  proof this is my nonsense , because i can't know , don't asked is your told that .

Thank !

Sorry, but I have no idea what you're trying to say. Your English is broken.

If i no say me is where come from, you are asked me english is broken ? 

who is nonsense?

I'm sorry, but the words you are using do not make sense. Are you using an automatic translator?
  Reply
#14
(01-09-2016, 02:52 AM)joe Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 02:49 AM)baylf2000 Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 02:45 AM)joe Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 02:00 AM)baylf2000 Wrote:
(01-08-2016, 07:55 PM)joe Wrote: Because Pine64 Web have not talked about speed , Please give your information  ,  proof this is my nonsense , because i can't know , don't asked is your told that .

Thank !

Sorry, but I have no idea what you're trying to say. Your English is broken.

If i no say me is where come from, you are asked me english is broken ? 

who is nonsense?

I'm sorry, but the words you are using do not make sense. Are you using an automatic translator?

answer me my quotation , proof sd card speed is 20-30mb , and i''m not say my English is good , why you too slow reply me my english is bad  ?  

Excuse me? Do your own research. It's not difficult. It's literally everywhere.

And while you're at it, stop posting aggressive comments in English forums when you clearly don't speak English. I seriously don't know whether you're being polite and just don't understand what you're saying, or whether you're actually meaning to be a complete ass hole.
  Reply
#15
(01-09-2016, 03:01 AM)baylf2000 Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 02:52 AM)joe Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 02:49 AM)baylf2000 Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 02:45 AM)joe Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 02:00 AM)baylf2000 Wrote: Sorry, but I have no idea what you're trying to say. Your English is broken.

If i no say me is where come from, you are asked me english is broken ? 

who is nonsense?

I'm sorry, but the words you are using do not make sense. Are you using an automatic translator?

answer me my quotation , proof sd card speed is 20-30mb , and i''m not say my English is good , why you too slow reply me my english is bad  ?  

Excuse me? Do your own research. It's not difficult. It's literally everywhere.

And while you're at it, stop posting aggressive comments in English forums when you clearly don't speak English. I seriously don't know whether you're being polite and just don't understand what you're saying, or whether you're actually meaning to be a complete ass hole.

You are not answer me proof sd card speed ! 
  Reply
#16
Purple monkey dishwasher!
  Reply
#17
(01-09-2016, 03:10 AM)joe Wrote: answer me proof sd card speed !  Please !

Nice, you seem to be the average Pine64 kickstarter backer trusting in specs and promises more than in reality Smile

(01-08-2016, 03:31 PM)baylf2000 Wrote: Getting anything greater than about 25MB/s from an SD card

I would suspect it's more close to 20/22MB/s (write/read) as with any other Allwinner SoC now.
  Reply
#18
(01-09-2016, 06:52 AM)Andrew2 Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 03:10 AM)joe Wrote: answer me proof sd card speed !  Please !

Nice, you seem to be the average Pine64 kickstarter backer trusting in specs and promises more than in reality Smile

(01-08-2016, 03:31 PM)baylf2000 Wrote: Getting anything greater than about 25MB/s from an SD card

I would suspect it's more close to 20/22MB/s (write/read) as with any other Allwinner SoC now.

Exactly. But it's not just Allwinner. The SD card specs say clearly that the maximum theoretical speed for the SD bus itself is 25MB/s. The only way to improve on that is to upgrade the bus to UHS, which requires specialised voltages in the case of UHS I, and extra data lines in the case of UHS II.

I have never seen an ARM soc board implement a UHS interface. I have no idea why. I wish I knew. It's not rocket science. I'm not it might be because of licensing costs for UHS interfaces, but no manufacturer has ever confirmed this to me.

For our rude Chinese friend, here is the official interface specs from the SD Association themselves. https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overvi...index.html
  Reply
#19
(01-10-2016, 03:59 AM)baylf2000 Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 06:52 AM)Andrew2 Wrote:
(01-09-2016, 03:10 AM)joe Wrote: answer me proof sd card speed !  Please !

Nice, you seem to be the average Pine64 kickstarter backer trusting in specs and promises more than in reality Smile

(01-08-2016, 03:31 PM)baylf2000 Wrote: Getting anything greater than about 25MB/s from an SD card

I would suspect it's more close to 20/22MB/s (write/read) as with any other Allwinner SoC now.

Exactly. But it's not just Allwinner. The SD card specs say clearly that the maximum theoretical speed for the SD bus itself is 25MB/s. The only way to improve on that is to upgrade the bus to UHS, which requires specialised voltages in the case of UHS I, and extra data lines in the case of UHS II.

I have never seen an ARM soc board implement a UHS interface. I have no idea why. I wish I knew. It's not rocket science. I'm not it might be because of licensing costs for UHS interfaces, but no manufacturer has ever confirmed this to me.

For our rude Chinese friend, here is the official interface specs from the SD Association themselves. https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overvi...index.html


Can you Stop ?

I have no time to here read your English .  This is over 25MB/s , you asked is SD 2.0 version

[Image: i6z9c3.png]
[Image: 5bnzat.png]

Please read allwinner A64 document 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0cEs0l...ef=2&pli=1
  Reply
#20
(01-10-2016, 03:59 AM)baylf2000 Wrote: For our rude Chinese friend, here is the official interface specs from the SD Association themselves. https://www.sdcard.org/developers/overvi...index.html

Do you think someone who's not able to differentiate between protocol revisions, bus speed and card types can deal with specifications?
  Reply


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