What could we do better?
Shipping Methods
42.55%
40
Store Support
13.83%
13
Community Relations
3.19%
3
Keeping you up-to-date
12.77%
12
Chats and forums
2.13%
2
Nothing
25.53%
24
94 vote(s)
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How did we do this year and what could be done better?
#11
(12-05-2019, 04:06 PM)Luke Wrote: Hi everyone,

I'd like everyone's input on what you think we did well this year and what could be done better.

Thank you for 2019!

1)  I am amazed at the short amount of time it took for the actual "In Transit Time" 

The Pinebook Pro itself was delivered very quickly,

The accessories do take a slow boat by comparison though.
   
  The time from ordering to shipping could maybe be imroved on.

        BUT,  I have NO Real complaints...


2) DHL seems to work excellent for a great number of the deliveries, ... but not for everyone ?

3) Please keep us posted on the replacement ANSI keyboards. For the existing PBP's

  Thank You  !   GREAT JOB  PINE 64

Note : The Pine Team cannot control what happens in each countries Customs, that is a separate matter.!

( They take the PBP's from China and drop them at the DHL station in Hong Kong, Then DHL 'usually' delivers them to most global locations in 48 hours or less, AMAZING ! )
   LINUX = CHOICES
   **BCnAZ**
          Idea
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#12
Sometimes, I wish Pine64 would care more about the quality of their products and strive for perfection. Let's have a look about the Pinebook Pro.

There are at least two hardware defects:

#1 People report whine when playing audio https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=8242. I wish there were an official reaction from Pine64: Can they reproduce the problem and acknowledge that there is a hardware defect? Do their hardware engineers investigate? Did they come up with a solution? Can users implement their solution with enough technical skills? Will the next Pinebook Pros have revised hardware? It seems that Pine64 does not care about this hardware defect and we have to live with it.

#2 People report battery drain when on external power https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=8240. I wish there were an official reaction from Pine64: Can they reproduce the problem and acknowledge that there is a hardware defect? Do their hardware engineers investigate? Can they tell us if that harms the battery? Did they come up with a solution? Can users implement their solution with enough technical skills? Will the next Pinebook Pros have revised hardware? It seems that Pine64 does not care about this hardware defect and we have to live with it.

#3 People report kernel crashes https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=8184 when the system is under load (in the meantime, I moved to Manajaro's kernel which is rock solid). One needs a serial console to debug the kernel crashes. TL Lim seems to live in my neighborhood and so I was asking him to borrow me a serial console cable to debug the kernel crashes. I wanted to have the serial console cable not for my own experiments but for the overall good. I did not get a reply. As it recently turned out, a serial console cable would not have mattered:

#4 People report issues with Pine64's serial console cable https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=8494 frying the Pinebook Pro. How was the serial console cable tested? How was it possible that it's sold in the store? Why is it still sold in the store?

#5 The Pine key can only be used as a privacy switch key, but not together with any other key. This key is used by many people together with the cursor keys to switch virtual screens. Pine64 was only active in discussions about the shape and symbol of the Pine64 key, but don't join discussions on problems with it. Is that a hardware (keyboard) limitation or a firmware limitation? In the latter case, is someone actively looking into improving the firmware? We don't know.


I used to be quite enthusiastic about the Pinebook Pro and provided a few kernel patches. One (or two?) are in Manjaro's kernel and so a lot of people help to improve the Pinebook Pro because the believe Pine64's approach to open hardware is the future but not everything can be outsourced to the community.
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#13
(12-08-2019, 05:23 PM)Der Geist der Maschine Wrote: Sometimes, I wish Pine64 would care more about the quality of their products and strive for perfection. Let's have a look about the Pinebook Pro.

There are at least two hardware defects:

#1 People report whine when playing audio https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=8242. I wish there were an official reaction from Pine64: Can they reproduce the problem and acknowledge that there is a hardware defect? Do their hardware engineers investigate? Did they come up with a solution? Can users implement their solution with enough technical skills? Will the next Pinebook Pros have revised hardware? It seems that Pine64 does not care about this hardware defect and we have to live with it.

#2 People report battery drain when on external power https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=8240. I wish there were an official reaction from Pine64: Can they reproduce the problem and acknowledge that there is a hardware defect? Do their hardware engineers investigate? Can they tell us if that harms the battery? Did they come up with a solution? Can users implement their solution with enough technical skills? Will the next Pinebook Pros have revised hardware? It seems that Pine64 does not care about this hardware defect and we have to live with it.

#3 People report kernel crashes https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=8184 when the system is under load (in the meantime, I moved to Manajaro's kernel which is rock solid). One needs a serial console to debug the kernel crashes. TL Lim seems to live in my neighborhood and so I was asking him to borrow me a serial console cable to debug the kernel crashes. I wanted to have the serial console cable not for my own experiments but for the overall good. I did not get a reply. As it recently turned out, a serial console cable would not have mattered:

#4 People report issues with Pine64's serial console cable https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=8494 frying the Pinebook Pro. How was the serial console cable tested? How was it possible that it's sold in the store? Why is it still sold in the store?

#5 The Pine key can only be used as a privacy switch key, but not together with any other key. This key is used by many people together with the cursor keys to switch virtual screens. Pine64 was only active in discussions about the shape and symbol of the Pine64 key, but don't join discussions on problems with it. Is that a hardware (keyboard) limitation or a firmware limitation? In the latter case, is someone actively looking into improving the firmware? We don't know.


I used to be quite enthusiastic about the Pinebook Pro and provided a few kernel patches. One (or two?) are in Manjaro's kernel and so a lot of people help to improve the Pinebook Pro because the believe Pine64's approach to open hardware is the future but not everything can be outsourced to the community.

As an actual PinebookPro first batch user I don't these things as problems or don't experience them. In my opinion you should only get a PinebookPro at this stage if you are willing to accept that it is not yet completely finished. The provided debian Mate actually works pretty well (for a previous KDE/Windows7/10 user) and the updates work (and fixed for example the firefox crashes). It will take some time for other distros to come with a tuned version (I'm hoping for a KDE neon), and I hope we will get mainline only kernels. I would like to see the main distro updated to debian 10 sometime, but are willing to wait for a mainline kernel there. I'm going to try Manjaro from SD soon (if I have more time/XMas holidays?).
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#14
Regarding the Pinebook Pro, I think it's absolutely extraordinary what the Pine64 team has accomplished with limited resources. The PBP was usable the day I received it and has been improving with each software update. This is a hackable $200 laptop that's powerful enough to be used as a daily driver for a lot of folks. The build quality is superior to any other laptop that approaches this price range. And it's yours, you own it, you can modify it, you can contribute to the software that it runs, and you don't have to sign your human rights away to use it. I mean really, it doesn't get much better than this.
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#15
Personally, I'm very impressed with how you did. For me, I'm sticking with Pine from now on for all my needs. My needs are simple. I'm not a developer and I can't even program. I'm just a regular consumer and I stumbled upon Pine when looking for a repairable smartphone (I can change the battery easily and that's already a win). I've bought two pinebook pros (one for dad) and one pinephone so far and I'll grab the pinetime too as soon as I can. I plan to tether the smartphone to the laptop for browsing the internet on the go from the laptop. I agree with some of the other posts that it would be great if shipping got cheaper. I tried to buy two laptops at once but couldn't. I presume this is because they're packed individually and it's just simpler that way. Maybe it's to discourage one individual from buying everything. It would be nice if you moved away from foam packaging eventually and just used cardboard and paper. Product information on the website is a bit slim but I see that anyone can contribute with what they know on the Wikipedia page. What has imressed me most so far about Pine was the announcement in November that an upgrade kit for the original pinebook is being considered, following forum interest in such an upgrade. This gives me great faith in Pine64. You guys seem to have a cohesive long term plan.
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#16
I have not actually yet gotten my hands on any products, so can't say much about that. It seems you did very well, delivering more than promised.

Personally, I didn't know about Pine before the phone project started. At that time I had been waiting for Purism's Librem phone to come through (I had not ordered it, though) but when I found out about the Pinephone, I soon switched camp. The main reason was the way these two projects communicate. Not to go too deeply into this but I think Pine communications are a lot more a reflection of what "open source" seems to symbolize (for me). It seems a lot more "relaxed" than the sort of desperate appeal for my values that the other company tries to pull me in with. I guess I see Pine communications and branding being more honest than what I have come to expect from practically anyone these days. I think you should really focus on how to keep it up now that you are becoming more mainstream. As long as the software support isn't perfect, it is very easy to annoy the less hobbyist customer who forgets or doesn't understand what he is ordering. Or maybe you should have a strategy to focus on the hobbyists while the software catches up with the products?
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#17
I am a big fan of your work, keep it up.

What I would improve:

1) Better Shipping and customs processing
----------------------------

Something like the Ebay Global Shipping Program or the Amazon shipping would be really nice.

With those sellers, I can pay customs fees together with the price of the product (+shipping-fee) and I don't have to worry about the customs hassle since they handle it for me.

Why don't you simply sell / ship via Ebay as well? I don't think it adds a big cost. I would definitely pay a couple of dollars extra for a smooth shipping experience (I have to pay a minimum of 10 EUR anyway for any customs processing if I have to do it instead of the seller).

Maybe Ebay has a special program for community projects like Pine64 with minimal fees.

2) Better ordering experience
-------------------

At the moment, the order process seems fairly complex and managed manually at several phases (I had some experience with it in relation to the original PineBook, which I didn't order in the end because of the long wait time).

I understand that this is because of the relative big time periods between production batches but it could still be improved significantly.
- Registering the order in a proper database
- Giving an estimate for the waiting customer about the next batch (maybe from the rate of collecting new orders)
- Notifications to waiting users how their batch is progressing (keeping up the enthusiasm)
- Possibly some integration with sites like Ebay and Aliexpress (in case you decide to use them)
- Notifications about shipped products
...etc


I am a software developer and willing to work on an automated ordering system for Pine64 as a community contribution (let me know if I can help).
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#18
Overall, I'm very happy with the Pinebook Pro  Smile

I can understand how some people had an issue with high shipping costs.

Although there are always going to be unanswered questions, "Keeping you up-to-date" has been surprisingly good considering how many projects Pine64 has in development.

Yes, there are a few possible hardware issues with the PBP (eg. weak WiFi, whining noise, etc.), but this is to be expected with any new product.  The important thing is that they get addressed moving forward.

"Store Support" could use some improvement.  Currently, there seems to be two major issues.

The first, is that the Pinebook serial console adapter sold in the store might not work properly with the Pinebook Pro because it is the wrong chipset and the wrong voltage.


(12-08-2019, 05:23 PM)Der Geist der Maschine Wrote: #4 People report issues with Pine64's serial console cable https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=8494 frying the Pinebook Pro. How was the serial console cable tested? How was it possible that it's sold in the store? Why is it still sold in the store?

The second, is that the PINEBOOK Pro M.2/NGFF NVMe SSD Interface Adapter doesn't fit the Pinebook Pro.

So there seems to be a bit of a disconnect between the store and the community.  That's one thing that could be done better.

The "Community Relations" (thanks @Luke!) and "Chats and forums" are excellent.  We truly have a great group of people here willing to help out and share their knowledge, as well as administrators and moderators who do a fine job keeping it running.

I would also like to thank everyone who has contributed to the Wiki. Without all your help I couldn't edit your atrocious English  Tongue

Based on everything I've seen so far, I looking forward to great things from Pine in 2020 Smile
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#19
Will the PinePhone be available in the USA?
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#20
(12-21-2019, 06:14 AM)Martok Wrote: Will the PinePhone be available in the USA?

It will be available worldwide, with some exceptions. USA isn't one of the exceptions however.
You can find me on IRC, Discord and Twitter


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