Yet another Epic Pine Store fail
#11
(01-24-2021, 10:46 PM)lot378 Wrote:
(01-24-2021, 01:16 PM)KNERD Wrote:
(01-24-2021, 10:57 AM)lot378 Wrote: I think duty/tax is calculated on (value of goods + shipping cost/insurance) at least that is my experience. That is why the shipping cost/insurance is declared on the customs note with the value of the goods. Pine64 are following regulations for import duty tax.

But as mentioned in this case they included the value of the item plus the shipping costs, so no they did not following correct regulations. You don't pay more in taxes than the value of the item.

Ahh. It was not clear to me that good value and shipping were not separated on the customs note, seems Pine64 filled it in incorrectly.

Would you care to share a photo of the customs note obviously removing identification?


I don't have it. As I mentioned, I rejected the package. They are going to have to resend it again with declaration filled out correctly.
On that same day, I received another package from DHL which also came from Shenzen where the new LCD screen for the PinePhone was also sent from. I see no declaration on the outside. When DHL told me there was a tax due , I was suspecting this package was it as it was not the first time they did not get an order correct.
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#12
(01-25-2021, 09:25 AM)KNERD Wrote: I don't have it. As I mentioned, I rejected the package. They are going to have to resend it again with declaration filled out correctly.

Ahh, of course well hope you'll keep Pine64 community updated -- indeed another fail for the Pine64 store/company.
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#13
(01-25-2021, 09:37 AM)lot378 Wrote:
(01-25-2021, 09:25 AM)KNERD Wrote: I don't have it. As I mentioned, I rejected the package. They are going to have to resend it again with declaration filled out correctly.

Ahh, of course well hope you'll keep Pine64 community updated -- indeed another fail for the Pine64 store/company.

I sure will. Strangely, I opened a support ticket, and they actually responded very quickly, but stated I needed to instead send this information to sales@.l

Nothing yet back from them.
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#14
Duty/tax is calculated on (value of goods + shipping cost/insurance), Pine Store is following regulations for import duty tax.

Since this shipment has been reject for no good reason, the fault responsibility fall back to buyer. Once the buyer open Paypal dispute claim, Pine Store will put the buyer in blacklist and no longer allow to order from Pine Store.
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#15
(01-27-2021, 01:04 AM)tllim Wrote: Duty/tax is calculated on (value of goods + shipping cost/insurance), Pine Store is following regulations for import duty tax.

Since this shipment has been reject for no good reason, the fault responsibility fall back to buyer. Once the buyer open Paypal dispute claim, Pine Store will put the buyer in blacklist and no longer allow to order from Pine Store.

WRONG. Followed incorrect regulations thus responsibility of on PineStore. PineStore will be put on my blacklist list and publicly shamed.

PayPal complaint filed then
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#16
I don't really want to get in the middle of this. But in the best interests of everyone here, I'm curious where exactly you did have this shipped to. (And of course what the actual regulations are there, but that part we can figure out.)

And I encourage you to not act hastefully and spitefully. Heck I don't have any skin in the game, but I'll raise funds to make you square just to prevent you filing a complaint with PayPal. Finding a peaceful and just resolution for both sides is in the best interest of everyone here.
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#17
(01-27-2021, 02:02 PM)KC9UDX Wrote: I don't really want to get in the middle of this.  But in the best interests of everyone here, I'm curious where exactly you did have this shipped to.  (And of course what the actual regulations are there, but that part we can figure out.)

And I encourage you to not act hastefully and spitefully.  Heck I don't have any skin in the game, but I'll raise funds to make you square just to prevent you filing a complaint with PayPal.  Finding a peaceful and just resolution for both sides is in the best interest of everyone here.


I have a house in Mexico where I hang out often. I have things shipped to me all the time. I even have a couple  special mail drop services on the border where the will import items from the USA from places like Amazon, eBay, etc. One of the mail drop services is Mexican, and the other is American. Any time an item has a declared value of $50 or more, they will impose a federal sales tax of 16% (Impuesto al valor agregado (IVA)) on the item. I provide them with an invoice showing the price I paid for it, and any shipping. Shipping and any other taxes which may have been paid is not included.


Here is the regulation on it:

https://www.dof.gob.mx/nota_detalle.php?...30/11/2018

Section 3.7.1.   Despacho de mercancías por vía postal

Running it through an English translator for you all:

Quote:
ship goods by post 3.7.1.
For the purposes of articles 21, 59, last paragraph, 82 and 88 of the Law, operations carried out by post will be subject to the following:

I. The importation of merchandise will be executed without using the "Customs ticket" format, nor the services of a customs agent, customs agent or legal representative accredited, and without the payment of IGI, VAT and DTA, provided that:

    a) The customs value of the merchandise to be imported, by recipient or consignee, is equal to or less than the equivalent in national or foreign currency of 50 dollars; and

b) The merchandise is not subject to compliance with non-tariff regulations and restrictions. Under the provisions of the current section, the import of books may be carried out, regardless of their quantity or value, except those that are classified in tariff section 4901.10.99 of the TIGIE that are subject to the payment of the IGI.


II. The importation of merchandise may be carried out using the "Customs ticket" format, without the services of a customs agent, customs representative, or an accredited legal representative, and without paying the DTA, applying a global rate of 16% to the value of the merchandise or those indicated in sections I and II of rule 3.7.4., as appropriate, using in this case the generic code 9901.00.06., provided that:

a) The customs value of the merchandise, per recipient or consignee, does not exceed the equivalent in national or foreign currency to 1,000 dollars; and

b) Compliance with applicable non-tariff regulations and restrictions.

Merchandise whose customs value, per recipient or consignee, is equal to or less than the equivalent in national or foreign currency of 50 dollars and they are subject to the payment of contributions other than IGI, VAT or DTA, must be imported under the established procedure in this section, paying the corresponding contributions. The importation of goods made in accordance with this section will not be deductible for tax purposes. The data contained in the "Customs ticket" are final and may only be modified once before customs clearance of the goods, when appropriate in the judgment of the customs authority, by rectifying said ticket, provided that the interested party submits a Written request addressed to the customs authority that made the determination for the payment of the contributions or to the corresponding SEPOMEX office and it concerns the following data: description, value or amount to be paid for the merchandise.

The rectification will be recorded on the ballot itself, and the signature and stamp of the customs authority that carries out said rectification must be entered. It may not be imported under the procedure provided for in this rule, goods that are difficult to identify, which, due to their presentation in the form of powders, liquids or pharmaceutical forms, such as: pills, troches, tablets, granules, tablets, capsules, dragees, require physical and / or chemical analysis to know its composition, nature, origin and other characteristics necessary to determine its tariff classification, regardless of the quantity and the consigned value. Similarly, you will not be able to import and export merchandise prohibited by international postal agreements to which Mexico is a Party, as well as by the TIGIE.


In this case, I did show DHL I had a receipt showing I paid $30 USD for the screen. They indicated because the shipper declared $65 USD, there was nothing they could do.
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#18
If you haven't already opened a Paypal dispute, please don't. I'm honestly saying this less for Pine64's sake and more for yours. The situation you're in right now, as a direct result of your own decisions, is not great, and you'll only continue to make it worse if you keep doubling down.

Pine64 is not your usual tech company, and isn't just trying to get your money by any means necessary. They are doing their best to get interesting open hardware into the hands of as many tinkerers as possible, and sometimes, things don't go perfectly for their customers. This is because, due to their lack of focus on profit, they don't have the raw wealth necessary to simply sweep all the complications of international shipping out of your view. Having to pay excessive import taxes on your order is unfortunate, but even if it is due to a mistake on Pine64's partner company's part, it's still not unreasonable for them to ask you to pay that tax.

By refusing, you've only made things harder for everyone, most of all yourself; now the package is being returned to sender, and it will cost even more to get it back to you. If you open a Paypal dispute over it, then you'll virtually guarantee that you'll never have another chance to get what you ordered. You'll be blacklisted from any future orders, and it's very unlikely that they'll ship you your package back, since you've given them no reason to do so. Is recovering part of your payment really worth those long-term consequences?

It's your decision. Stripping Pine64 of a few dollars won't kill them, but you'll very effectively screw yourself over if you choose to ignore this and carry on like you are.
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#19
(01-27-2021, 04:57 PM)diodelass Wrote: If you haven't already opened a Paypal dispute, please don't. I'm honestly saying this less for Pine64's sake and more for yours. The situation you're in right now, as a direct result of your own decisions, is not great, and you'll only continue to make it worse if you keep doubling down.

Pine64 is not your usual tech company, and isn't just trying to get your money by any means necessary. They are doing their best to get interesting open hardware into the hands of as many tinkerers as possible, and sometimes, things don't go perfectly for their customers. This is because, due to their lack of focus on profit, they don't have the raw wealth necessary to simply sweep all the complications of international shipping out of your view. Having to pay excessive import taxes on your order is unfortunate, but even if it is due to a mistake on Pine64's partner company's part, it's still not unreasonable for them to ask you to pay that tax.

By refusing, you've only made things harder for everyone, most of all yourself; now the package is being returned to sender, and it will cost even more to get it back to you. If you open a Paypal dispute over it, then you'll virtually guarantee that you'll never have another chance to get what you ordered. You'll be blacklisted from any future orders, and it's very unlikely that they'll ship you your package back, since you've given them no reason to do so. Is recovering part of your payment really worth those long-term consequences?

It's your decision. Stripping Pine64 of a few dollars won't kill them, but you'll very effectively screw yourself over if you choose to ignore this and carry on like you are.

I have not done a PayPal dispute yet, but if you are going to do something, then do it correctly. Since they are the ones who made the error, then they need to fix it.  It is more than the tax, but I am being also charged a fee to collect that tax which I do not owe. Not everyone who orders lives in Europe.

I know mistakes are made, but the attitude seems to be generally poor response about it. Being not for profit is a poor excuse for being that way.  The package seems to be stuck, and sales could has least responded (which they have not yet) saying maybe they can correct the error, and have them deliver it back pronto. Seems the long term consequences in on them, not me. I got other places to shop around if that's the attitude.
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#20
Is it stuck because someone is waiting for you to pay the import duty/fees?

I ask because, I'm not exactly made of money; but to get this squared away I'll gladly pay it. Why? Because I do understand what it's like to be a shoestring company trying to help the community, and I feel I get more value out of the products than what I've paid for them; so I don't have a problem paying more to help Pine64. Because I do understand your predicament, and I've been burned in such situations in the past; so I'd do what I can to help, and to prevent you and tllim escalating further into a situation that it going to be bad for you, for Pine64, and for frankly all the rest of us in the community.

Of course, if the fact that it's sitting somewhere is causing more fees to be incurred, I'd have to take that into consideration, too.
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