Discussion of Moving Production Outside of China
#71
(03-28-2021, 06:29 PM)dgdimick Wrote: There's a lot of people that are not following the news very closely, and still think China is "on top". China's in for some hard times in the next few years, and it will be interesting what actions they take to try and keep the CCP in power.
Leaking the Wahun Virus, taking over Hong Kong, the actions of their fishing fleets, seizing the sea areas they have, and the human rights violations coming out are not going to sit very well with the rest of the free world.

Let's not forget spyware built right in to electronics equipment
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#72
What is the best way to take attention away from problems at home within your own country? If you think "your leaders tell you to focus on the problems of another country" and you fall for it then you would be right. It eventually backfires and diminishes the country itself and furthers decline.

I guess many of you that disagree with China are from the USA ...

Many companies did shift semiconductor production outside China did it because they feared being unable to import products in to the USA. That fear is pretty much over with now and the threat of tariffs on imports from China has gone away. The rest of the world just raised an eyebrow at what was going on. Anyway, this shift had very little impact on how much manufacturing China does it still dwarfs everywhere else.

None of it matters anyway as we've all consumed our way right through all the available raw materials. Prices are going up and semiconductor production wherever it happens is eventually going to hit a wall. Whatever type of semiconductor it is be it memory, power management, wireless, discrete, analogue, ICs including processors are going to become scarcer, more expensive and then eventually unobtainable.

At least it might bring right to repair more sharply in to focus.

Lets pretend for a moment that Pine64 sets up manufacturing in another country. The supply chain would inevitably still involve semiconductors imported from China. May be a very small portion comes from another Asian country probably not though. That is an awful lot of pain that Pine64 would be setting themselves up for due to all the points of possible failure and things that can and will go wrong. One of those events is all it would take to end Pine64 as a business.

You "move production" guys simply have not thought it through adequately.

When Pine64 fails will you say "oh, hard luck".
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#73
(03-28-2021, 09:32 PM)lot378 Wrote: What is the best way to take attention away from problems at home within your own country? If you think "your leaders tell you to focus on the problems of another country" and you fall for it then you would be right. It eventually backfires and diminishes the country itself and furthers decline.

I guess many of you that disagree with China are from the USA ...

Many companies did shift semiconductor production outside China did it because they feared being unable to import products in to the USA. That fear is pretty much over with now and the threat of tariffs on imports from China has gone away. The rest of the world just raised an eyebrow at what was going on. Anyway, this shift had very little impact on how much manufacturing China does it still dwarfs everywhere else.

None of it matters anyway as we've all consumed our way right through all the available raw materials. Prices are going up and semiconductor production wherever it happens is eventually going to hit a wall. Whatever type of semiconductor it is be it memory, power management, wireless, discrete, analogue, ICs including processors are going to become scarcer, more expensive and then eventually unobtainable.

At least it might bring right to repair more sharply in to focus.

Lets pretend for a moment that Pine64 sets up manufacturing in another country. The supply chain would inevitably still involve semiconductors imported from China. May be a very small portion comes from another Asian country probably not though. That is an awful lot of pain that Pine64 would be setting themselves up for due to all the points of possible failure and things that can and will go wrong. One of those events is all it would take to end Pine64 as a business.

You "move production" guys simply have not thought it through adequately.

When Pine64 fails will you say "oh, hard luck".


You sound like you get your information directly from the CCP.

All those chips are made from Silica, probably the most common element on the planet. The beaches are full of it.

Funny how the Raspberry Pi does fine with a made in the UK board.

Mentioning the UK, the UK has been taking action against China for human rights violations, as well as treaty violations with Hong Kong.

You really need to stop watching CCTV and stop reading the China Daily for your "news."
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#74
Since this thread devolved completely into "politics" now, it will be locked if no more objective discussion not violating the rules is forthcoming. There are plenty of places on the net where you can take this...

https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=13209

"No politics, religion or other sensitive topics is permissible on any of our platforms. Simply put, there are better places to discuss such topics. This rule also applies to #OffTopic chat and Community and Events subforum. Posts referring to such subject matter will be removed and may result in a warning, and even a temporary ban if the activity does not cease."
Come have a chat in the Pine IRC channel >>
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#75
(03-29-2021, 02:04 AM)xalius Wrote: Since this thread devolved completely into "politics" now, it will be locked if no more objective discussion not violating the rules is forthcoming. There are plenty of places on the net where you can take this...

https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=13209

"No politics, religion or other sensitive topics is permissible on any of our platforms. Simply put, there are better places to discuss such topics. This rule also applies to #OffTopic chat and Community and Events subforum. Posts referring to such subject matter will be removed and may result in a warning, and even a temporary ban if the activity does not cease."

Sorry xalius.

However, this thread has been political since post #1. Trying to discuss the manufacturing issues Pine64 would face moving production to another country objectively is an impossible matter when some of the participants are oblivious to the facts and use politics to deflect any attempt at rational discussion.

I condemn this thread for that reason and it ought to be closed.

Sand/silicon may be abundant materials but not the only raw material used in semiconductor production. Some are combined with silicon and those and other materials are in shortage like the build-up film (ABF). For a clue lookup what is happening with semiconductors used in automotive and GPU production. All the sand on all the beaches in the world will not matter when the other materials used in semiconductor manufacturing are not available any more.

The UK's own government has broken the law multiple times on the rights of it's own people and crossed UN conventions.
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#76
Huh Did we really reach Peak Semiconductor? Confused 

I disagree that we cannot have an objective conversation on this matter.  It's not safe to assume that no one else knows what they're talking about.  We do all have different viewpoints.  But we are adults, and should be able to reconcile our differences, and learn from each other.

I don't want to see this thread closed; and we could prevent that by our posts, or lack thereof.
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#77
I apologize to the moderators for contributing to a political discussion, but if these forums are read by Pine64 personnel I think it's an important venue of making their customers' voice heard. So my voice - I'd be willing to support them by paying more if Pine64 decides to move their production elsewhere, and I've presented my reasons for why while trying to avoid flame wars. But ultimately even the questions of open source vs closed source is a matter of politics, so IMHO it's a bit silly to ask avoiding discussing any politics in a fundamentally political community. It is perfectly reasonable, however, to ask people to stay civil and avoid speculating about who's on top and how long they will be there.

Would moving production out of China be difficult and expensive? Most definitely. Will most people be OK paying more for that? Possibly not. Will that make Pine64's future even less certain? Probably. Is this decision up to Pine64 and most everybody else can do is vote with their money? Absolutely.
This message was created with 100% recycled electrons
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#78
(07-30-2020, 05:39 PM)LittleWalter Wrote: Not sure if this has been discussed, or if this is "too political" or not PC to talk about around these parts, but has there been any?

More and more, I'm starting to look for items made and produced outside of mainland China.  I understand that certain components would be hard--if not impossible to source--but it's nice to a see a "Made in the UK" stamp on a RPi box/board or "Made in Korea" on HardKernel's products, for example.  Yeah, I love how open source everything w/ Pine64 it still bugs me.  Yeah, I realize it's a complicated topic wrt cost, logistics, etc.

Sorry, if this has been posted before.

I agree with you. America, UK and other westen countries used to produce everything. Unfortunetly, politic and policies, ended that, enriching China with tons of manufactures. Countries who have lost their manufactures should strive to bring them back to their countries creating jobs and help their own country's economy. Because, western countries specially, became so depleted of manufactures it is hard to produce anything in land. I thank God for PINE64 and their wonderful project, and I hope that eventhough their products are being made in China right now, Pine64 will prosper enough to have their wornderful products being made elsewher, in the UK, USA, GERMANY, BRAZIL, ETC... Sorry if my post went of tech content.
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