Play along - create a PinePhone keyboard
#81
Count me in as someone who would like a split keyboard. I have (very) tiny hands, which means a thumb keyboard can't be too wide, or it'll be unusable (or even cause physical pain if it requires too much stretching).

The GPD Win 2 has a keyboard approximately the size of the PinePhone, as pictured here:
[Image: WP_20200828_11_37_19_Pro.jpg]

This keyboard is too wide for me. I find it very difficult to use to tap out more than a few words, which isn't a big deal for the GPD Win2, since I use it for games rather than browsing, texting, etc.

For reference, the width of my four fingers on my left hand is only 2.75", and from thumb-to-pinkie with my fingers fully spread, it's only about 7.5".
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#82
(08-28-2020, 12:37 PM)murak Wrote:
(08-28-2020, 11:36 AM)lonze Wrote:
(08-28-2020, 01:08 AM)x0r Wrote: Please complete the questionnaire:

1. Which key should be physically accessible on the keyboard. 
for example PgUp, ~, `, Esc, arrow (If the key e.g. pgup should be physical
but not on the keyboard (next to increasing the volume),
please also write)

2. What key should not be available on a physical keyboard.
for example 'Ins' 'Print screen', F12 (but will still be available as a key combination
for example Fn3+key)

3. Which multimedia keys should be available?
e.g. increase the volume, contrast+- ,  turn on/off internet, open program mail, back, forward

4. How many modification keys should be on a keyboard.
(the so-called function keys, Fn) for example Fn1+A = Ą or
Fn2+Shift+t= Shift Tab on normal full keyboard. (this is not AltGr==RightAlt,
this is key for other functions, meybe multimedia, meybe localisation language etc.)

----------------
Unfortunately it is not possible to do a survey on specific keys here
I would really need Finnish letters Ä and Ö. I think something like US international keyboard's dead accent keys would serve most of us.

Can you post a picture of that layout? Is it similar to the handwritten one from Pine64? I also think a English layout of some sort would please the most of us since terminal commands are mostly in English Smile If there is a FN-key combo for my Swedish ÅÄÖ then that would be a plus. The important thing is that the keyboard will be made at all (looking at my N900 laying in the drawer.)

Found this site explaining the layout quite well. Doesn't say anything about Å but I'm quite sure there is also some way to write it.
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#83
realy?
you vote to put ins and dont put other keys? count char in japanese
if you propose key+other key for = char
why not for 'a'?
for example a = q+e ! very intuitive
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#84
[Image: blackberry_onyx_9020_to_get_optical_trackpad.jpg]
I'd like to remind everyone that the BlackBerries had a teeny tiny trackball(or an optical trackpad later on).
You could still get them as modules for Arduinos, so it seems to be an option if anybody wants to incorporate them into their keyboard designs.

Or even just have them in the back cover without a keyboard and figure out the use case for it later. idk.
Also, the PS Vita had a whole trackpad in the back.
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#85
(09-01-2020, 09:50 AM)Michael Arthur Long Wrote: I'd like to remind everyone that the BlackBerries had a teeny tiny trackball(or an optical trackpad later on).
You could still get them as modules for Arduinos, so it seems to be an option if anybody wants to incorporate them into their keyboard designs.

What is the width of the phone? There are 10 horizontal keys. How much would it fit vertically?

I think that big keys like spaces or esc, back, pgup, down, enter would fit easily.
[Image: kl.jpg]

To operate a browser, pgup, down, esc and tab are more important than even a space.

Maybe you will write a survey, though?
e.g. [0-9] [A-Zaz] [language char] ;'\,.<>/?
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#86
(09-01-2020, 09:50 AM)Michael Arthur Long Wrote: [Image: blackberry_onyx_9020_to_get_optical_trackpad.jpg]
I'd like to remind everyone that the BlackBerries had a teeny tiny trackball(or an optical trackpad later on).
You could still get them as modules for Arduinos, so it seems to be an option if anybody wants to incorporate them into their keyboard designs.

Or even just have them in the back cover without a keyboard and figure out the use case for it later. idk.
Also, the PS Vita had a whole trackpad in the back.
An optical trackpad like this should be very useful. It does not take much space. Also I would like to have keys like Ctrl, Alt, Esc. They are very useful in Emacs and Vim. All common symbols like F1-F12, []{}\|~` should be kept as they are often used in shells and other terminal utilities. I don't mind if some of the symbol keys need to be entered with the Fn key. Arrow keys can be used as PgUp, PgDn, Home, End with the Fn key.
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#87
Photo 
I compared the size of my pinephone with a bluetooth keyboard of mine. I feel comfortable thumb typing on this bluetooth keyboard and there is still some room. I think an optical trackpad and arrow keys can be added to such a keyboard layout, with some adjustments.
[Image: IMG-20200903-005657-8.jpg]
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#88
I have had several phones over the years.
My favorites have been the n900 and the cosmo communicator.

Comparing the psion keyboard of the cosmo side by side with the n900, there's no comparison.
I prefer the psion keyboard, even when compared with multiple bluetooth keyboards I've also had or used.

I do have medium size hands, so that might be a factor.
However, the large size of the keys themselves and the spacing just ends up making it perfect, even for touch typing.
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#89
(09-01-2020, 09:50 AM)Michael Arthur Long Wrote: [Image: blackberry_onyx_9020_to_get_optical_trackpad.jpg]
I'd like to remind everyone that the BlackBerries had a teeny tiny trackball(or an optical trackpad later on).
You could still get them as modules for Arduinos, so it seems to be an option if anybody wants to incorporate them into their keyboard designs.

Or even just have them in the back cover without a keyboard and figure out the use case for it later. idk.
Also, the PS Vita had a whole trackpad in the back.

I'm not a big fan of the trackpad on the front idea, the vita's "Track pad" on the back is a bit better than one on the front, because you have more space, you can cover more width, but a small trackpad you cant travel to far, the problem with the vita's is that it isn't the easiest to use, because you're than forced to hold the device a specific way otherwise you're touching the trackpad, and sometimes that isn't the most comfortable, or doesn't allow you to support the device in a way that'll make it a good user experience.

I think the trackball might work a bit better, it'd still have the issue of not having much travel, but I think if you're having it on the front, it'd be a better experience than a small trackpad, partially because a trackball sticks out which makes it more comfortable when sliding your hand over it, rather than your finger constantly hitting the trackpads bump when you hit the end of the trackpad, there is the option of a nub as well like the GDP pocket!

The other question is positioning,

If you have it in the middle next to the space button, then a nub would be a better choice than a trackpad or trackball, however if you have it on the right hand side somewhere, then a trackball/trackpad might be a nicer experience.

Having a Nub, Trackball/trackpad would only make sense if we also have, at least a left click button.

The gdp pocket has a nub just under the spacebar and then underneath the nub is a left click and right click button, later editions changed that to a trackpad on the top right, and left click and right click on the top left, the first GDP pocket seems like its designed to be set on a coffee shop table as you use it, the GDP pocket 2, seems designed to be used while being held in two hands.

I guess if we're going to add mouse input we have to decide, are we gonna use the keyboard more when we're sat in costa or at home, or when we're on the bus, or walking around town? once we know where we're gonna use it more, the easier those decisions will be if we go that route as a community.

If we wanted to do both ways  of using it half decently, than a trackpad on the back with a nub or trackball under the spacebar would probably be the best setup for the mouse input, but left click and right click, I am not so sure, every way has its advantage and disadvantage, but those are my thoughts.
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#90
II NEED a keyboard for my Linux devices, I want back-light and tactile activation.
I always treated my mobile devices like a little laptop, the N900 a little computer which could make phone calls.
The keyboard has to be durable and have a good snappy click so I know I have that keypress.
I dont know what can be done for a backlit keyboard to keep the letters form scraping off of the keys and like the N900 there will need to be a selection of keypads for different languages.
For my use I use the N900's keypad for english and the on-screen keyboard for non-english typing.

If we are making a back though there should be room for optional plug-ins like qi charging, NFC, expanded battery, etc so we don't have to choose between a keyboard and other accessories. The keyboard is too important and drives off the other covers with it's utility.

I love the slide out KB on the N900, pre-platform fire Nokia tough slider rails etc. I am not sure whether a slider would be best for a 5-6" phone though, I like the idea of laptop like protection for the big fragile screen but I feel like it might take getting some prototypes out there for people to play with. It would be nice to thumb bang out messages like I do with my N900. Did Sialfish ever ship the keyboard other-half? How was whatever they made received and what was lacking?
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