Play along - create a PinePhone keyboard
#31
(07-31-2020, 05:02 PM)SwordfishII Wrote: I am in agreement with 1&2. For 3 you would basically not have a flat surface on the back? Or you would have a cover so the back would be flat, with just a pass through for the camera? But then the keyboard would be restricted in width?

I see why you say that and the logic behind it.

I was thinking of it dividided in two, with a fixed part with the camera and the moving part with the keyboard, but I hadn't thought of the antennae, and the modem and kill switches would likely still make the top half too thick.

So, after giving it a second thought, and make the design cheaper...

1. Make an adapter board, which connects the display, the front camera and the power/volume keys.
2. Remove the middle frame, the PCB, the back camera, speakers and and everything except front camera, LCD and keys from the front side of the chassis.
3. Make a new middle frame just thick enough to cover the LCD back. This should make it almost flat.
4. On the keyboard side of the frame, place the PCB, vibrator, battery and everything that's not glued to the front assembly
5. Repurpose the original middle frame and back cover in the keyboard case to minimize costs.

This approach would leave us with the top half of the phone containing just the display, earpiece and power/volume rockers, and all the weight in the bottom. Pine could repurpose the middle frame, the back cover and all the design for different accessories they might have on the pipeline, but would require of designing a small adapter board for the LCD to route the wiring to the back case, a flat middle frame (could be based on the existing one), and then everything related to the keyboard itself.

Mocked up a little something something in photoshop to make it easier to understand

.jpg   key.jpg (Size: 456.48 KB / Downloads: 331)
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#32
(07-31-2020, 11:49 PM)biktorgj Wrote:
(07-31-2020, 05:02 PM)SwordfishII Wrote: I am in agreement with 1&2. For 3 you would basically not have a flat surface on the back? Or you would have a cover so the back would be flat, with just a pass through for the camera? But then the keyboard would be restricted in width?

I see why you say that and the logic behind it.

I was thinking of it dividided in two, with a fixed part with the camera and the moving part with the keyboard, but I hadn't thought of the antennae, and the modem and kill switches would likely still make the top half too thick.

So, after giving it a second thought, and make the design cheaper...

1. Make an adapter board, which connects the display, the front camera and the power/volume keys.
2. Remove the middle frame, the PCB, the back camera, speakers and and everything except front camera, LCD and keys from the front side of the chassis.
3. Make a new middle frame just thick enough to cover the LCD back. This should make it almost flat.
4. On the keyboard side of the frame, place the PCB, vibrator, battery and everything that's not glued to the front assembly
5. Repurpose the original middle frame and back cover in the keyboard case to minimize costs.

This approach would leave us with the top half of the phone containing just the display, earpiece and power/volume rockers, and all the weight in the bottom. Pine could repurpose the middle frame, the back cover and all the design for different accessories they might have on the pipeline, but would require of designing a small adapter board for the LCD to route the wiring to the back case, a flat middle frame (could be based on the existing one), and then everything related to the keyboard itself.

Mocked up a little something something in photoshop to make it easier to understand

Imo the easiest (but maybe not the most popular) is to simply lose camera usage with the keyboard attached.

This keyboard is a stop gap until the psion style one can be completed. Certainly it would be nice to have everything, and it's great to strive for that but I am curious how important the keyboard is for people and what if any sacrifices they are willing to accept.

At least for me, i would gladly give up the back camera for a keyboard.
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#33
(08-01-2020, 03:38 AM)SwordfishII Wrote: I am curious how important the keyboard is for people and what if any sacrifices they are willing to accept.

At least for me, i would gladly give up the back camera for a keyboard.

I would be willing to sacrifice a camera for a keyboard, too.

About the general subject: Please, don't waste any space on a Caps Lock key. Space on such tiny keyboards is too precious for such a useless key. People who need Caps Lock can easily map that functionality to Fn+Shift.
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#34
Quote:Imo the easiest (but maybe not the most popular) is to simply lose camera usage with the keyboard attached.

This keyboard is a stop gap until the psion style one can be completed. Certainly it would be nice to have everything, and it's great to strive for that but I am curious how important the keyboard is for people and what if any sacrifices they are willing to accept.

At least for me, i would gladly give up the back camera for a keyboard.


I'd also be willing to give up the back camera for a keyboard. The PinePhone can't become my DD until a keyboard is available - I'm still using Sailfish on my Photon Q atm. Personallly, I find the Droid 4 and Photon Q keyboards perfect whereas I find virtual keyboards unusable, so for me, it isn't a stop gap - it's exactly what I'm hoping for. I'd probably still try a Psion style keyboard out of curiosity if one is released later though.
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#35
(07-31-2020, 11:49 PM)biktorgj Wrote:
(07-31-2020, 05:02 PM)SwordfishII Wrote: I am in agreement with 1&2. For 3 you would basically not have a flat surface on the back? Or you would have a cover so the back would be flat, with just a pass through for the camera? But then the keyboard would be restricted in width?

I see why you say that and the logic behind it.

I was thinking of it dividided in two, with a fixed part with the camera and the moving part with the keyboard, but I hadn't thought of the antennae, and the modem and kill switches would likely still make the top half too thick.

*snip

Mocked up a little something something in photoshop to make it easier to understand
This is an interesting idea since it solves two important problems: weight distribution and camera. And possibly it might feel better to hold as well. Have you taken the phone apart and had a look at what could hinder this idea? I'll have a look myself and see if it seems possible. 

Personally I think something like this is the most realistic design:
[Image: 31SDaLfglKL.jpg]
-either make a hole in the keyboard part for the camera or accept that you only can take pictures when the keyboard is out. 
-weight distribution COULD be a problem, but one would have to make a mockup to be sure. 

Lots of discussion has taken place in this thread already: https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?...6#pid54726

Keyboard layout is something that almost deserves its own thread. There are a lot of things to consider since only one layout will be made. I found this tool for playing with layouts: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com

I have little time right now but maybe someone can make a layout like the one in the blog post so that we have something to start working on?


Attached Files
.jpg   31xanPKB6DL.jpg (Size: 13.77 KB / Downloads: 258)
"- is there already a tool for overclocking it desperately?" 
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#36
Photo 
https://klawiatura.files.wordpress.com/2020/08/kl.jpg
nice '+' without shift, phi, degree, hard space etc.
feed back with diodes (for example in w3m show what screen you use)

[Image: kl.jpg]
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#37
(08-01-2020, 07:17 AM)CharlieGordon Wrote:
(08-01-2020, 03:38 AM)SwordfishII Wrote: I am curious how important the keyboard is for people and what if any sacrifices they are willing to accept.

At least for me, i would gladly give up the back camera for a keyboard.

I would be willing to sacrifice a camera for a keyboard, too.

About the general subject: Please, don't waste any space on a Caps Lock key. Space on such tiny keyboards is too precious for such a useless key. People who need Caps Lock can easily map that functionality to Fn+Shift.
Good point with the Caps key.
  Reply
#38
(08-01-2020, 06:06 PM)SwordfishII Wrote:
(08-01-2020, 07:17 AM)CharlieGordon Wrote:
(08-01-2020, 03:38 AM)SwordfishII Wrote: I am curious how important the keyboard is for people and what if any sacrifices they are willing to accept.

At least for me, i would gladly give up the back camera for a keyboard.

I would be willing to sacrifice a camera for a keyboard, too.

About the general subject: Please, don't waste any space on a Caps Lock key. Space on such tiny keyboards is too precious for such a useless key. People who need Caps Lock can easily map that functionality to Fn+Shift.
Good point with the Caps key.
Ins key too.

Therefore keyboard mini from https://klawiatura.wordpress.com/wersja-mini/ is optimal. 3 function key (2 for japanese language), for French, Spanish, Finish, norvegian, Czech, Polish, Korean etc. feedback for screen bar. PgUp, arrows etc.
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#39
(08-01-2020, 02:37 PM)murak Wrote: Personally I think something like this is the most realistic design:
[Image: 31SDaLfglKL.jpg]
-either make a hole in the keyboard part for the camera or accept that you only can take pictures when the keyboard is out. 
-weight distribution COULD be a problem, but one would have to make a mockup to be sure. 

Lots of discussion has taken place in this thread already: https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?...6#pid54726

Keyboard layout is something that almost deserves its own thread. There are a lot of things to consider since only one layout will be made. I found this tool for playing with layouts: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com

I have little time right now but maybe someone can make a layout like the one in the blog post so that we have something to start working on?
I think something like that is what we'll end up with. The problem I see is the speaker being on the opposite corner of the phone to the camera, so it will always be covered in the arrangement shown. Adding an outlet to the side or bottom (or both) is possible - anyone here any good at acoustic models?
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#40
(08-03-2020, 03:08 AM) Wrote: Ins key too.

Therefore keyboard mini from https://klawiatura.wordpress.com/wersja-mini/ is optimal. 3 function key (2 for japanese language), for French, Spanish, Finish, norvegian, Czech, Polish, Korean etc. feedback for screen bar. PgUp, arrows etc.
That's 108 keys. That's more than most full size desktop keyboards have. The target number of keys for a device the size of a Pinephone should probably be closer to 50.

But then, you're probably joking and I'm missing the joke.
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