Arm acquisition
#11
> MIPS does exist, whose ripoff your RISCV is. it's open. and even schmopen. somehow, I don't see enthusiasm about it. why?

I actually do like MIPS quite a lot, but there are some problems with the companies backing it and the MIPS open initiative has been ended. Lawsuits are involved. It looks like the architecture may be dead in the water soon. https://www.cnx-software.com/2020/04/22/...-and-more/

Edit: the one exception seems to be China's Loongson but it's hard to find that in the US. https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n...-Ahead-5.8 Loongson is what RMS's famed (now ancient) Lemote laptop uses. Not sure if he still uses it.
#12
(09-16-2020, 02:43 PM)z4v4l Wrote:
(09-16-2020, 06:48 AM)jiyong Wrote:
(09-15-2020, 05:08 PM)z4v4l Wrote: the only "impact" so far is RISCV scammers got activated. (just count how many commenters ended their "highly concerned" posts with "hopes" about RISCV).

This aquisition will have no impact. at all. neither on SBC segment nor on Pine64.

Stop the name calling. Why are we scammers?

Nvidia has a terrible track record when it comes to Open Source.
The writing is on the wall. I really hope we don't have to say "We told you so" in a couple of years.
stop stopping. Tongue nVidia is a successful computer corporation, and as such, it couldn't care less about your religious views on "Open Source". they are not relevant for them. if you were nVidia, you'd get that. like it or not, but it's them, who will be designing/producing your next phone CPU cores, from which you will be bashing it. and google and microsoft and whoever yet has "terrible track record of opensource".
Quote:Concerning RISC-V, what's the problem with an Open Source alternative?
It's vaporware. annoyingly and unsolicitedly pushed in every topic. oh, it's like Jehovah's Witnesses. Big Grin
Would be a totally different story, if it really existed somewhere else, other than stupid near-almost-technology gnu/propaganda blogs. but so far, it doesn't. MIPS does exist, whose ripoff your RISCV is. it's open. and even schmopen. somehow, I don't see enthusiasm about it. why? gnu/influencers didn't tell you about it? it's just all so vanity talks. laughably irrelevant and absolutely out of reality. okay, you wanna chat about "big things", hapenning in the industry, that's normal, but why should it necessarily end up with moaning, generating tons of snivel about "endangering the Sacred Cow of Open Source"? come on, it's beyong cr4p!



Quote:BTW, RISC-V is not a "scam", it's just immature and overpriced. Will it improve? Maybe, maybe not. Time will tell.
when something "immature and overpriced" (and non-existent, worth to add) is being so aggressively advertized, it's a scam.

Why the blind hate?
Google has a reasonable track record with Open Source. Hell, you can play around with Android, as Google released the full source.
The Google Apps are a different story, but I wouldn't call it a terrible track record.
MS called Linux a cancer, so yes, they still have a long way to go, but even MS is slowly changing course.

RISC-V isn't pushed in every topic. Just search this forum and tell me how many topics RISC-V is mentioned.
You call it vaporware, but SiFive announced their desktop computer for next month and PicoRio announced a SBC to be released this year, with an update next year.

You can keep posting with hyperbole, but that doesn't mean you are right.
Open your eyes and open your brain.
Linus started something that was irrelevant and absolutely out of reality.
Look where Linux is now.
Linux is just one example and RISC-V can become another example.
#13
(09-16-2020, 02:43 PM)z4v4l Wrote: ...
Quote:Concerning RISC-V, what's the problem with an Open Source alternative?
It's vaporware. annoyingly and unsolicitedly pushed in every topic. oh, it's like Jehovah's Witnesses. Big Grin
Would be a totally different story, if it really existed somewhere else, other than stupid near-almost-technology gnu/propaganda blogs. but so far, it doesn't. MIPS does exist, whose ripoff your RISCV is. it's open. and even schmopen. somehow, I don't see enthusiasm about it. why? gnu/influencers didn't tell you about it? it's just all so vanity talks. laughably irrelevant and absolutely out of reality. okay, you wanna chat about "big things", hapenning in the industry, that's normal, but why should it necessarily end up with moaning, generating tons of snivel about "endangering the Sacred Cow of Open Source"? come on, it's beyong cr4p!

...
when something "immature and overpriced" (and non-existent, worth to add) is being so aggressively advertized, it's a scam.
You do realize that Pine64 is in the process of releasing a product with a RISC-V processor?
It's due in the next few months.

True, it's using an embedded SoC, and not a very powerful one. (But, this won't be the first Pine64 product with a low power, low performance embedded SoC, see PineTime. To be clear, PineTime is NOT RISC-V.)

Here is the link;

Wiki - Pinecil

Some of the people stating they are considering RISC-V, (Western Digital), are ones that can then avoid processor royalty costs. Plus, benefit from tayloring the instruction set for their application. Like a hard drive controller SoC that has a sector checksum accelerator built in.

I personally want to see open source hardware like Ethernet controller chips. With TCP/SCTP/UDP off-load engines, perhaps using RISC-V.

But yes, RISC-V CPUs / SoCs that are equiv to a Raspberry Pi are currently vapor ware.
--
Arwen Evenstar
Princess of Rivendale
#14
@z4v4l - do you even know what vaporware is ?

Hint: "In the computer industry, vaporware is a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually manufactured nor officially cancelled."

Now, there are products you can buy:

https://www.hackster.io/news/microchip-s...8378f37614

Others already sold out (years ago):

https://www.crowdsupply.com/sifive/hifive-unleashed

Edit:

More on the horizon:

https://www.hackster.io/news/sifive-unve...d43adf357c
#15
Quote:Open your eyes and open your brain.
right, even the language as that sectarians use. "Wouldn't you want to talk with us about our savior "Linux" and "RISCV"? Open your brain, close your 4ss". Big Grin f&cking come on!
Quote:Linus started something that was irrelevant and absolutely out of reality.
why should I care? what relation this sugary tale has to the biggest HW merger, which is the topic of this "extremely" useful thread? Ah, right, "witnesses" don't care what people around talk about, they have the only one topic in their minds - delusional fantasies about their obsession, "freedumb", in this case. let me be honest with you - I am sick of this nonsense now.
Quote:Look where Linux is now.
let me see. cheapo, underdeveloped, messy mediocrity used for outsourcing and offloading spendings by big companies? at the expense of quality. faceless, inefficient web servers, and awful crapdroid eating up resources af and still being a useless sh1t.
Quote:Linux is just one example and RISC-V can become another example.
"can" be is not "is". and even if it becomes a thing, it won't be what you fantasizers imagine - sweet dreams "open" thingy, it will be stuffed with what their makers see the need to put over there. full of "closed" "system controllers/guards/engines/security/crypto/blobs/firmware" etc. just for their benefit and what they think - their clients. needless to say, both of those couldn't care less about your pink unicorn freedom.

(09-17-2020, 10:23 AM)Arwen Wrote: You do realize that Pine64 is in the process of releasing a product with a RISC-V processor?
It's due in the next few months.

True, it's using an embedded SoC, and not a very powerful one. (But, this won't be the first Pine64 product with a low power, low performance embedded SoC, see PineTime. To be clear, PineTime is NOT RISC-V.)

Here is the link;

Wiki - Pinecil

Some of the people stating they are considering RISC-V, (Western Digital), are ones that can then avoid processor royalty costs. Plus, benefit from tayloring the instruction set for their application. Like a hard drive controller SoC that has a sector checksum accelerator built in.

I personally want to see open source hardware like Ethernet controller chips. With TCP/SCTP/UDP off-load engines, perhaps using RISC-V.

But yes, RISC-V CPUs / SoCs that are equiv to a Raspberry Pi are currently vapor ware.
You asked me and then anwered it at the end.
Quote:But yes, RISC-V CPUs / SoCs that are equiv to a Raspberry Pi are currently vapor ware.

I didn't talk about deeply embedded sh1t, it's a totally different category. and if all these riscv evangelists, jumping nervously with their links to convince me how "I don't get what vaporware is" can't distinguish between desktop/smartphone grade application processor and disk drive intetnal controller, then my participation in this timewasting party is even more questionable.

and no, no way, there will be "open" Ethernet controllers, TCP/UDP/html/javascript offloaders, ever. no matter what CPU architecture is inside, people will be keeping their valuable secrets. because it's their success, they must be insane to open it to competitors. it doesn't work this way.
#16
> and no, no way, there will be "open" Ethernet controllers, TCP/UDP/html/javascript offloaders, ever. no matter what CPU architecture is inside, people will be keeping their valuable secrets. because it's their success, they must be insane to open it to competitors. it doesn't work this way.

https://github.com/hpcn-uam/Limago

Paper: https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8891991
#17
A few years ago, NVIDIA ran an evaluation to place RISC-V inside their GeForce cards. Go figure!

And there's more about NVIDIA and RISC-V if anyone cares to find out.

As for the acquisition of ARM by NVIDIA, the bottom line IMO is NVIDIA only cares about putting the heebie-jeebies on their 'BFF' Apple. It's lead by Apple's announcement they were ditching Intel for ARM on MacBook. "That'll teach you for rejecting our graphics cards in MacBooks!". It's some sort of short-term revenge/one-upmanship/gas-lighting on Apple.

NVIDIA's share price (and most tech shares) are artificially inflated at the moment especially due to the US market. And 'working from home' seems to have encouraged lots of people to buy NVIDIA graphics cards so they can work/game all day. The tech bubble is due to crash.

Blockers to the deal:
- UK government referral to competition and monopoly regulators
- US interference ala Huawei and TikTok signifies it could be very bad for ARM licencees
- Crash of NVIDIA share price + dilution of share worth caused by the proposed deal
- US economy crash when government stops pumping CV19+ cash
- SoftBank realising NVIDIA share values will plummet (large chunk of the deal is in shares)
- ARM Holdings no longer being the "Switzerland" neutral entity
- Current licensees raising pitchforks conflict of interests/antitrust issues (see above line)
- Pitchforks line probably joined by NVIDIA share-holders seeing the worth diluted
- Whatever is going on with ARM China would have to be resolved ahead of completing the deal
- This list could grow and grow ...

https://savearm.co.uk/

I do not like NVIDIA but they made the Jetson, that was pretty cool.

In the end, I think NVIDIA's attempt to acquisition ARM will ultimately backfire and fall to pieces.

At least it's positive for RISC-V's growth (definitely I'll buy the Pinecil when it's in the store).

MIPS: Back in the 90's DECStation 3100 (MIPS) and DEC Alpha (RISC) were blisteringly fast workstations for the time! Sadly, I don't think MIPS is viable now but I remember.
#18
Information technology plays a crucial role in the transmission of
knowledge in today's world.
Unfortunately the hardware is becoming the weaker part for free and community software support.
Linux may in the future be "banned" by hardware vendors under pressure from various governments and "entertainment" producers interests.
To not allow Linux could be enough to provide the operating system with the machine and keep the bootloader locked.
I am also concerned about Nvidia's acquisition of ARM.
In this regard, I think that the Linux community and those who realize the importance of free software, unhindered from political and economic constraints, should try to equip themselves with their own hardware, immediately, while there is time.
MIPS, with its beautiful architecture, seems now to be quite neglected: it could be acquired and hardware to order produced. There is a lot of software for this architecture, used in many products with embedded Linux.
A company could be created, with free software admirers from all over the world as shareholders.
A starting point could be this community.
#19
(09-17-2020, 02:20 PM)z4v4l Wrote:
Quote:Open your eyes and open your brain.
right, even the language as that sectarians use. "Wouldn't you want to talk with us about our savior "Linux" and "RISCV"? Open your brain, close your 4ss". Big Grin f&cking come on!
Quote:Linus started something that was irrelevant and absolutely out of reality.
why should I care? what relation this sugary tale has to the biggest HW merger, which is the topic of this "extremely" useful thread? Ah, right, "witnesses" don't care what people around talk about, they have the only one topic in their minds - delusional fantasies about their obsession, "freedumb", in this case. let me be honest with you - I am sick of this nonsense now.
Quote:Look where Linux is now.
let me see. cheapo, underdeveloped, messy mediocrity used for outsourcing and offloading spendings by big companies? at the expense of quality. faceless, inefficient web servers, and awful crapdroid eating up resources af and still being a useless sh1t.
Quote:Linux is just one example and RISC-V can become another example.
"can" be is not "is". and even if it becomes a thing, it won't be what you fantasizers imagine - sweet dreams "open" thingy, it will be stuffed with what their makers see the need to put over there. full of "closed" "system controllers/guards/engines/security/crypto/blobs/firmware" etc. just for their benefit and what they think - their clients. needless to say, both of those couldn't care less about your pink unicorn freedom.


You should care, because this big acquisition can have big implications.
You call us delusional, based on what?
It's only hyperbole and no facts.

As you noticed, Linux is running on an overwhelming majority of web servers and mobile devices.
How on earth is that possible with underdeveloped, messy mediocrity?

Just fyi, SiFive gets a CEO that is a veteran in the chip industry (Qualcomm hedging their bets?):
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2...ve-Officer

Imagination Technologies is still on the RISC-V bandwagon, even after signing a (new) deal with Apple (perhaps they learned Apple is not a reliable customer).
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/new-pi...-processor
https://venturebeat.com/2020/01/18/imagi...-strategy/

When you still don't see the writing on the wall, time to open your eyes.
#20
The Libre SoC project is worth keeping an eye on as well imo.


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